Sniper Rounds

The Washington Times ^ | 1-23-06 | Bill Gertz and Rowan Scarborough

[JZelle]

An Army judge advocate general (JAG) temporarily banned Army and Marine Corps snipers from using a highly accurate open-tip bullet. The JAG, we are told, mistakenly thought the open-tip round was the same as hollow-point ammunition, which is banned. The original open-tip was known as Sierra MatchKing and broke all records for accuracy in the past 30 years.

[DejaJude]

If you're shooting a 50 cal with intentions of killing the target, what the hell difference does it make what the projectile is? What am I missing?

They want us killing them softly?

[Joe 6-pack]

"All JAGs should be given a temporary rank of private, turned over to a line unit or motor T unit going into hostile areas for 6 months before they are allowed to opine, prosecute or judge the conduct of those going "outside the wire", so to speak. This is nonsense."

Did you know that the British Army requires all enlisted MP to serve in an alternate MOS until the rank of Lance Corporal? There are no MP privates in the British Army, and I think it's a system we may want to consider (which we kind of do when it comes to CID). I was a branch detail officer and did two years as an M1A1 tanker prior to switching over to the MP Corps; a background that gave me a lot more credibility when dealing with officers from other commands over soldier disipline, route planning, utilization issues, etc. Granted the role of the MP in the US Army is a lot more expansive than that of most other NATO (or world, for that matter) armies which use their MP in an almost purely law enforcement and EPW capacity.

[ozoneliar]

These people need to serve in line units before going JAG.

Part of the reason that they(JAGs) don't do combat(generally, that is.If needed they will) is because they don't give orders. They are there to render advice to Commanders. Courts martial can only be called by a commander; A JAG can advise whether to do so, but that is all. I had the oppurtuinty to meet with a Col. (JAG) recently. It was very illuminating as to what JAGs do.

Marine lawyers(I don't believe they are called JAGs) need to undergo the same training as all other Marine officers. They actually lead platoons.

[Uriah_lost]

Are you accepting applications?

[MeanWestTexan]

The point (I hope) is that a "she" obviously was not a sniper (or really any kind of front line combat troop), so she made this mistake.

Whatever.

The "JAG" designation is more telling, and I like the Army lawyers I have met. They were just (with some notable exceptions) REMF.

[papertyger]

...and I realize that the movie producers were being cowards by making the crime in the movie a real crime, instead of something only their fellow liberals would agree with.

That's why they're into the arts and theater. They can craft a world where they aren't craven, duplicitous, and traitorous in their pursuit to *fix* the society they can't fit into.

[Uriah_lost]

Unless he went to the media or public before taking up the chain of command. Everybody has to follow the rules. That's what sets us apart.

[trebb]

What's next? How about spitballs...

[absolootezer0]

There are other most fabulous things you can do with them too, with a dab of contact incendiary or explosive material that is readily available to those in combat.

zippo flints inserted into a HP make one heckuva flash on impact. and they make spotting long range hits on steel targets very noticible.

[Schichtel]

HARM WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT!

[Cobra64]

It's S&W's new 2006 model of a .50 assault weapon. It fires 3,000 rounds / minute. Accurate up to 600 yards in that it shoots 1/2" groups when bi-pod mounted.

[blackdiamondracer]

Having JAG officers serve in other branches before going JAG will make them more capable to providing timely and relevent advise to the command.

[shield]

Came up through the ranks during 'toons' administration...

[cowboyway]

If they're having to use M60 rounds, it means 7.62mm, not 50cal. Significant difference from the .50 in both range and accuracy over that range.

Don't I know it. I have a 308 (Springfield Armory M1A National Match) and have shot a 50. But I'm assuming that hollow points are banned for all sniper rounds, regardless of caliber.

But my point is, we can frag em, blow em all to hell with missiles and plethora of other means of blowing the enemy to bits but we can't use a hollow point bullet?

I don't get it.

[quikdrw]

The JAG officer should have been relieved and brought up on charges of directltion of duty

[darkwing104]

"After Army lawyers were finally alerted to the JAG's action, the order was lifted and the JAG was notified that the open tip was perfectly legal for use by snipers. However, the reversal was followed by the Army officials' taking retaliation against a sniper who blew the whistle on the bogus order. The sniper lost his job over a security infraction in reporting the JAG."

Names, we need names. Who was the JAG? and who was the sniper? Smacks of gross violation of the whistle blower law and just begs for an IG investigation.

[Publius6961]

This person overstepped her bounds. That is no grounds to malign the entire JAG. Most JAG's are hard working, great officers. All JAG's do is advise;that is their job. This JAG was wrong.

Of course it's a good reason to malign the entire JAG. Unless they fired her or at least demoted her to a position where she can no longer do something stupid without authorization.
If they have in fact taken steps to deal with her delusional incompetence, my asessment of the entire JAG holds.
And since there was no classified material involved, the demoted sniper (whistleblower) should be reinstated.

[mmercier]

I knew a guy from Mississippi that taught me how to put a contact material into a hollow point .357 that would blow a telephone pole in half.

He was a chemist.

It was fun.

[TChris]

I never could figure out the thought process behind the soft-point/hollow-point ban. When grenades, RPGs, shotguns, etc. are all A-OK, what in the world makes a soft-point/hollow-point so unspeakably horrible? Does a hollow-point bullet hurt more than grenade shrapnel?

*baffled*

[ozoneliar]

Of course it's a good reason to malign the entire JAG. Unless they fired her or at least demoted her to a position where she can no longer do something stupid without authorization. If they have in fact taken steps to deal with her delusional incompetence, my asessment of the entire JAG holds. And since there was no classified material involved, the demoted sniper (whistleblower) should be reinstated.

A)This is Army JAG, there are 5 branches of the military. It doesn't reflect on the Navy, or Air Force.

B)We don't know what will happen yet.

C)So you mantain that the actions of one JAG (out of thousands) is sufficeint to malign the entire corps?