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Deny the Designer, Save "Science"
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| 1/23/2006 12:06:59 AM
| P. David Hornik
Posted on 01/22/2006 10:08:10 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Para-Ord.45
Evolution is not science. Science requires 1. Observation and 2. Repeatability, neither of which evolution is capable of. Evolution is religion, pure and simple.
61
posted on
01/23/2006 3:46:55 AM PST
by
RoadTest
(- - Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit. - Isaiah 27:6b)
To: wastoute
No science type graces ID with the term "theory." ID isn't even a testable hypothesis.
62
posted on
01/23/2006 3:53:06 AM PST
by
Junior
(Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
To: Junior
This thread's hopeless, but I should toss this in. It may save one person from a life of ignorance:
Help for new visitors to the evolution debate
Another service of Darwin Central, the conspiracy that cares.
If you're interested in learning about evolution, visit The List-O-Links.
If you're serious about debating this issue, see How to argue against a scientific theory.
If you're permanently stuck on stupid, but determined to post anyway, use the Evolution Troll's Toolkit.
63
posted on
01/23/2006 4:00:10 AM PST
by
PatrickHenry
(Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
I had an interesting conversation with an ID promoter the other day and it went something like this:
ID Promoter: Life is so complex on Earth that there needed to be somebody or something that stepped in everything now and then and arranged things so humans could become humans. Life is just way too complex and to intricate to have happened on its own. Evolution cannot explain this complexity and shouldn't be taught as a fact in school unless the alternative of ID is also taught.
Me: So this somebody or something, was it God?
ID Promoter: I believe it was God, but it might have been an advanced civilization.
Me: That is really begging the question. First, evolution is not a scientific fact, rather it's a scientific theory and a scientific theory isn't what you are positing it to be. If you don't know the difference between what you believe a theory is and what scientific theory is, then I suggest you find out the difference and that will clear up a lot of the misconceptions you have.
Secondly, suppose it was some advanced civilization that poked its finger into the advancement of life on Earth, how did this advanced civiliztion come to be? That is really begging the question. Do you know what "begging the question is?"
Thirdly, suppose it was God that poked his finger into the advancement of life, you are now asking me to go from believing something very complex to something that is even more complex and mysterious. Here is a being that doesn't have a beginning, who creates world, no, universes just by thinking and speaking the word, who died and came back to life, who knows everything, is all powerful, and who is totally self-perpetuating and needs nothing outside of Himself, yet in spite of this, He, for some unknown reason, decides one day to create our universe and in spite of being all knowing and all powerful and all loving, He creates a universe full of evil, pain, and suffering. Then this God, for some reason decides to hide Himself from His major creation, mankind, and send all those who don't believe in Him to an eternity of Hell where they will suffer unspeakable pain and suffering forever and ever, and all this for His pleasure. Talk about complex and illogical. This level of complexity makes evolution look like child's play. And it too begs the question of if life is so complex that it requires some intervening intelligence, then how could God become so complex and so intelligent?
At this point, ID Promoter saw where I was going and ended the conversation. He also called me a paganistic heathen. Oh well, maybe my belief in Christ and God just isn't up to his standards. I believe that God did poke His finger in the advancement of life here on Earth, but I also believe that it shouldn't be taught as science. It doesn't pass the science test. Why can't it be taught is a philosophy class or something like that?
64
posted on
01/23/2006 4:33:14 AM PST
by
urroner
Comment #65 Removed by Moderator
To: Nathan Zachary
The "fossil record", for the most part was created at one specific period of time, which supports catastrophic event theory (real science with much more scientific support than evolution religion). There never will be a fossil record showing transitional forms, because none existed at the time the fossil record was created, no did they ever.
Note the dates of each of these specimens (my means millions of years); there is no evidence for a catastrophic event, sorry. If you want to push YEC, don't try to pretend there is scientific evidence supporting it.
Some of these are transitional forms. Can you tell which ones they are?
![](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/hominids2_big.jpg)
Figure 1.4.4. Fossil hominid skulls. Some of the figures have been modified for ease of comparison (only left-right mirroring or removal of a jawbone). (Images © 2000 Smithsonian Institution.)
(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern
66
posted on
01/23/2006 7:31:26 AM PST
by
Coyoteman
(I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
To: Hunble
How did the first protein make itself?
Evos cannot answer that with certainty.
To: Para-Ord.45
"How did the first protein make itself? "Evos cannot answer that with certainty.
Quite true, we do not deny it. However, we can answer with high certainty what happened after that first life.
Why is it that anti-evos spend so much time trying to convince the world that Darwinian Evolution or the Neo-Darwinian Synthesis has anything to do with pre-life and pre-universe? Is it perhaps because if they stick with what they should, the Origin of Species, the evidence is so overwhelming that they have to resort to those areas that science has just started looking for answers, or lose face?
68
posted on
01/23/2006 9:01:08 AM PST
by
b_sharp
(Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
To: Hunble
69
posted on
01/23/2006 10:03:40 AM PST
by
caffe
The Conspiracy That Cares |
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January 23, 2006 |
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CrevoSci Threads for the Past Week
- 2006-01-23 Deny the Designer, Save 'Science'
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- 2006-01-17 Cosmic Fingerprints: Evidence of Design Conference, South Carolina
- 2006-01-17 Earth Doomed (according to renowned British scientist)
- 2006-01-17 'Footprints' Debate To Run And Run (40K YO Human Footprints, Mexico)
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- 01/23/2005 The Crafty Attacks on Evolution
- 01/23/2005 The Left Inherits the Wind
- 01/23/2004 HUMAN MIGRATION TRACKED IN STANFORD COMPUTER SIMULATION
- 01/23/2004 Settling the dispute between Darwinism and Christianity
- 01/23/2002 Silly Season in WA State Legislature (my title)
- 01/23/2002 Western Scholars Play Key Role In Touting 'Science' of the Quran
- 01/23/2001 Evolution vs Creation - 'The Living Word Of God' (Thread 8)
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- 01/23/2000 Punctuate The Equilibrium Now!!! Creation, Evolution - a new thread
Deleted, Locked, or Pulled Threads
- 2005-11-15 'Perception' gene tracked humanity's evolution, scientists say [Locked]
- 2004-04-27 Stop Teaching Our Kids this Evolution Claptrap! [Pulled]
- 2003-10-29 The Mystery of the Missing Links (Intelligent Design vs. Evolution) [Pulled]
- 2003-10-27 Physics Nobelist Takes Stand on Evolution [Pulled]
- 2003-10-23 Gene Found for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder [Pulled]
- 2003-10-21 Artificial Proteins Assembled from Scratch [Pulled]
- 2003-09-23 Solar System Formation Questions [Pulled]
- 2003-09-17 Agreement of the Willing - Free Republic Science Threads [Pulled]
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- 2003-06-26 Darwin Faces a New Rival [Pulled]
- 2003-06-06 Amazing Creatures [Pulled]
- 2002-09-14 Geological Theory Explains Origin of Ocean, Continents [Pulled]
- 2002-09-13 Oldest Known Penis Is 100 Million Years Old [Pulled]
- 2002-04-13 To Creationists: Is There a Global Conspiracy to Promote Evolution? [Pulled]
- 2002-04-10 (Creationists) CRSC Correction [Pulled]
- 2002-04-04 Evolution: What is it? (long article) [Locked]
- 2002-03-22 Evolution is designed for science classes [Pulled]
- 2002-03-05 Life found 'on margin of existence' [Pulled]
- 2001-11-10 Alabama to continue biology textbook warning sticker [Pulled]
- 2001-11-06 Warming makes mosquito evolve, University of Oregon scientists find [Pulled]
- 2001-09-18 CHEERED BY BIGOTS, SCIENTIFIC INDIA TAKES 'GIANT LEAP BACKWARDS' [Pulled]
- 2001-08-29 How Not to Defend Evolution [Deleted]
- 2001-08-28 The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [6th Revision] [Deleted]
- 2001-08-27 Top Ten Problems with the Big Bang [Deleted]
- 2001-08-26 A Scientific Account of the Origin of Life on Earth [Thread I] [Deleted]
- 2001-08-24 Satellites Search for Noahs Ark [Deleted]
- 2001-07-19 The Effect of Darwinism on Morality and Christianity [Deleted]
- 2001-07-19 The Scientific Case Against Evolution: A Summary Part I [Deleted]
- 2001-07-19 The Scientific Case Against Evolution: A Summary Part II [Deleted]
- 2001-07-19 Evolution is Religion Not Science [Deleted]
- 2001-07-07 Evolution Fraud in Current Biology Textbooks [Deleted]
- 2001-03-31 Enlisting Science to Find the Fingerprints of a Creator [No Such File]
- 2001-01-13 A Christian Understanding of Intelligent Design [Deleted]
- 2000-11-15 Evolutionism Receives Another Hard Blow [Deleted]
- 2000-10-10 Another Lost Generation? [Deleted]
- 2000-10-02 God and the Academy [Deleted]
- 2000-09-18 The World of Design [Deleted]
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- 1999-11-14 Creationism's Success Past 5 Years: (Gallup: 1 in 10 hold secular evolutionist perspective) [No Such File]
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70
posted on
01/23/2006 10:31:00 AM PST
by
Junior
(Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
To: Junior
71
posted on
01/23/2006 11:09:59 AM PST
by
PatrickHenry
(Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
To: PatrickHenry
72
posted on
01/23/2006 2:17:23 PM PST
by
shuckmaster
(An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
To: shuckmaster
The whole article isn't available unless you register, or subscribe, or something. Maybe another copy will be available from a more-accessable source. Until then, your link will have to suffice.
73
posted on
01/23/2006 2:21:36 PM PST
by
PatrickHenry
(Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
To: JTN
Pope John Paul II was a Satanistic liar devoted to the spread of paganistic atheist heathenism and the destruction of all things sacred. If John Paul had his way, we would have seen the destruction of the entire Christian world as we know it, beginning with the obliteration of the Catholic church hierarchy.
Yes, I am being sarcastic.
To: TN4Liberty
Are you suggesting that creationists are trying to ban evolutionism, or that evolutionists are trying to ban creationism?
To: hail to the chief
76
posted on
01/24/2006 5:42:39 PM PST
by
TN4Liberty
(Sixty percent of all people understand statistics. The other half are clueless.)
To: TN4Liberty
How do you figure? Creationism is quite legal.
To: Hunble
"Evolution is the factual knowledge that all life forms on Earth have changed over time. That is an absolute fact and can not be denied.
If you are an exact copy of your Mother and Father, then please raise your hand. You will be the first biological organism in history to do so.
Anyone that dares to state that life forms on Earth have not changed over time, is using deception and lies for their own personal goals. "
You state the case incorrectly, perhaps on purpose, perhaps not.
The issue is not whether organisms change, it's obvious that, "life forms on Earth have changed over time". The issue is whether or not natural selection can explain all of the diversity of organisms that we see on this earth.
To: Para-Ord.45
79
posted on
01/24/2006 6:11:25 PM PST
by
VOA
To: Junior
"ID isn't even a testable hypothesis."
Neither is evolution.
For example, many years ago it was much discussed that finding a "living fossil" would be a way to falsify evolution.
Then the coelacanth was found and they said it was a further proof of evolution, not a proof against evolution.
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