Academic underachievers (Boys, discipline, dropouts, grades, medications, etc.)

The Washington Times ^ | January 22, 2006 | Joyce Howard Price

[Sweet_Sunflower29]

My mom had a book by Erma Bombeck when I was a kid called Motherhood- the Second Oldest Profession which I loved to read way-back-when. In the book, she was asked 'which are easier to raise, boys or girls'.

Her reply was something along the lines of

"... well, I've had both and I can tell you, it's boys.

When I yell upstairs to the boys asking about that thumping noise I just heard, they reply with 'Joey just threw the cat down the laundry chute-- it was cool'
When I inquire to the girls what they are doing upstairs, they sweetly reply 'nothing'.. and I have to find out for myself that they are making cookies with my bubble bath and favorite body powder."

It's been a long time, but I've always remembered that part of the book. And now that I am a mother to three boys and one girl, and I can tell you without doubt that Ms. Bombeck, like your mother, knew *exactly* what she was talking about.

[sagar]

A nerd? Not in an American sense! :D I was just commenting the fact that in the US, those highschool boys who are bookish nerds are looked down upon. And THAT is part of the problem.

As for me personally, I came here in the US as a 23-year old directly to college where airheads don't make it in the first place.

[FOG724]

But,,,do you honestly think that your boys will have "great teachers" throughout elementary school and the stable of teachers they must endure in middle and high school?

The great teacher I mentioned was in the third grade. The are in high school now. If you read the rest of my posts on this thread you will see that I absolutely hate the school system.

[FOG724]

Why are you doing this to your children?

Because I can't afford the alternative. The other thing my boys have learned is how to be survivors. I have great boys.

[HiTech RedNeck]

There is a famous comparison between Michael Jordan and Bill Gates that shows that between jocks and nerds, nerds win.

[SauronOfMordor]

That's the way it was whenI was in school in the 50's & 60's. The teachers LOVED the girls, who all got A's, and always behaved. Boy's seemed to get B's, C's & D's, got whacked regularly with a ruler, and were generally treated as 2nd class students.

It continued into the 70's as well. I went to a Catholic junior high (alternately called "middle school"). The nuns (IMHO) showed blatent favoritism towards the girls. I then went to an all-boys Catholic high school where I got a great education.

I think single-sex schools would be an improvement from 6th to 12th grades, as it enables boys and girls to concentrate on their studies instead of on each other

[SauronOfMordor]

How dare you call my girls a monstrosity?

Although he could have constructed his sentence better, it's evident to me that he was talking about the school system, not your kids.

[Tired of Taxes]

I just saw this article today... No time to read the other posts here. Just wanted to comment:

I homeschool my kids - three boys, ages 10 and under. There's a glaring difference between boys and girls (not surprising to anyone here, I'm sure). They need to learn through hands-on projects, through "doing", by working with their hands, learning how things work, taking things apart, putting them back together again.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. I have one son who learns well through reading, but mostly he reads about how things work, taking things apart and putting them back together again... ;-)

Everywhere we go, to the science museums (because that was always their main interest), there are so many programs exclusive to "girls only," and NONE for boys only, just co-ed.

I don't know why anyone ever thought girls were falling behind in school. I'm female. School and its focus on reading and writing and language was easy for me. I remember the best students in class were always girls, probably because most teachers are women who teach the way women learn.

[RockinRight]

Nerds?

[moog]

I'm the one in the middle, except now about 50 pounds heavier. But now they call me an in-nerd person since I haven't amounted to much of anything yet. I still have the laugh and the walk down though. I did stop carrying pens since I kept getting ink all over the place. I wear contacts now too, but haven's stopped wearing the shirts and pants. It's just a little harder pulling them up over my fat belly.

[RockinRight]

LOL...I have a friend who's almost identical to Booger (on the far right of the pic)...

[moog]

I've seen a couple around like him. I think he was in Better Off Dead, too if I'm not mistaken. THAT is one of my favorite movies because I identify with so many of the characters. HEHE

[illinoissmith]

You trying to make serious education reform (privatization) look bad?

I think the government schools are deeply flawed, and I think the system should be changed, radically.

That said, I'm sure it is possible, on occasion, with good parents, lots of checking up, a well-chosen or luckily-happened-upon neighborhood, and perhaps supplementary education, for kids sent to a public school to turn out OK. For you to insult a stranger and her children for making the best she can given the situation she is presented with, is out of touch with reality.

I think there is a deep flaw with the current education system insofar as it is a government monopoly, and as a government monopoly it tends to:

1) suck a lot of wealth for little quality,
2) support an inflated bureaucracy,
3) fail to progress or fix problems, this from lack of competition,
4) be an attractive target for perverse ideologues to use to spread ideologies adults would reject as gibberish,
5) be an attractive sitting target of fiddling for socialists who are interested (for ideological and short-term power reasons) in making a populace of people more concerned with pleasing authority figures and infantile peers than becoming thinking, potent,self-reliant human beings.

The long-term solution is to treat education like food, clothing, shelter - parents are required to provide it to children, by paying for it. For the few who can't afford it (as for the few who can't afford food) even after the reduction in taxes privatization would cause, you don't socialize the whole system for those few (stifling competition and possibility for positive change), rather you set up charities or the equivalent of food stamps for those few.

The short-term solution is vouchers, homeschooling, private schooling, or working really really hard as a parent to get the most out of your local government school, and to counter the negative influences of it, if that's the best you can do...

Insulting other people who are doing the best with what they have, and are very possibly getting good results with this hard work, does nothing except make your cause look insane, and reveal you to be a utopian.

You make my position look bad. Your post reads like you're Gene Ray.

[wintertime]

To Illinoismith,

I do not recall posting to any of your comments. Perhaps you could provide me the number.

I disagree with you.

Your carefully reasoned arguments are completely correct on an intellectual level, and I have made all of them myself many times but this isn't enough to bring about reform.

Reform will come about when parents **emotionally** feel differently about putting their **precious** child on the government school bus.

Government schools hurt children. At the moment they are failing to meet the needs of boys, possibly even actively pursing policies that directly cause them to fail.

No,,,,it is time to stop the " My children are thriving in government schools" arguement. No, they are not thriving. We have the statistics to show that boys are failing. It is not at all good for either boys or girls ( who may seem to be doing well) to witness this abuse of other children.

Also...we should reject the arugment, "My children are going to a wonderful public school". No, they are not. The government school culture is pervasive. If the government school is staffed with Education School graduates, it is NOT a wonderful school no matter how many Blue Ribbons it has been awarded.

It is time that we make government school defenders explain to the rest of us their exact reasons for sending their children to government schools that educationally and sometimes physically, and emotionally damage and abuse children. Why are they doing this?

The only excuse acceptable response is that they are so poor that absolutely have no other option. They have made every sacrifice possible and this is still not enough. They are doing it because if they didn't armed police, social workers, and court action would be brought against them.

If you want to see privatization of universal K-12 education, then parents must begin to be **ashamed** about their decision to use government schools, if they could and can sacrifice to provide a different environment.

[Tired of Taxes]

Wintertime,

For the record, I agree with you that we need to go on the offense more often. I read through those posts on this thread, and I saw nothing insulting that would warrant hitting the abuse key.

We homeschoolers are hammered over and over again by relatives, neighbors, friends, politicians, teacher's unions, and so many others for our decision to homeschool. We've heard far worse from anti-homeschoolers than what you posted. You were criticizing the public school system and the decision to place one's children into them. When Freepers criticize homeschooling and the decision to homeschool, we fight back, but I don't remember anyone reporting the anti-homeschoolers for abuse here.

Once a Freeper cursed me out in a Freepmail. I mean, literally cursed and called me names. All I did was calmly post a message telling her that I would report her for abuse if she ever posted to me again. That was the only time I ever even thought about hitting the abuse key, and it would've been perfectly warranted in that case.

I am 100% supportive of complete and total separation of school and state. An institutional-like school setting that requires children to attend six hours/day 5 days/week is not only unnecessary but harmful in many ways.

[wintertime]

I read through those posts on this thread, and I saw nothing insulting that would warrant hitting the abuse key. ( Tired of Taxes)

Tired of Taxes,

I don't take it personally. Liberals think like roaches. Turn in the light and they scurry,hurry,fuss and run all over the place.