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The Hybrid Hoax (They're not as fuel-efficient as you think)
The Weekly Standard ^ | January 20, 2006 | Richard Burr

Posted on 01/20/2006 10:58:08 AM PST by RWR8189

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To: NCLaw441

Yeah, the smart key is fantastic. I figure I save about five hours a year not having to dig in my purse for the keys. I really like the car because it's so entertaining.


101 posted on 01/20/2006 4:29:22 PM PST by Auntie Mame ("If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." --Grandma)
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To: Auntie Mame

Fair enough. Some people just go by the car's calculator, which can't always be trusted.


102 posted on 01/20/2006 4:38:25 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: Right Wing Assault

But the suburbs are much more spread out and have trees and greenery which help mitigate the pollution.


103 posted on 01/20/2006 4:49:19 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Reeses

I don't why you'd have to be any more vigilant than you'd normally be. If the pedestrian is in the street while you're driving, you should see him anyway. I'm sure hybrid cars still have horns, right?


104 posted on 01/20/2006 4:54:16 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: supercat

I think you're right. Some work has been done on that (but not enough).

For example, my Hybrid Escape has what Ford calls an Atkinson cycle engine. It's not really that at all; what they've done is retard the timing of the intake valve to reduce pumping loss on the compression stroke (some of the mixture flows back into the intake runners).

Also, the throttle is fly-by-wire. You can't do things like rev the engine unnecessarily when the transaxle is in park. You can't power brake either, but then this isn't a performance car either.


105 posted on 01/20/2006 5:45:06 PM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: SuziQ

Roughly half the time a pedestrian gets hit it is their fault, half the driver's. You still have control over your half, it's just that they can't hear you coming so sometimes they will step right out in front of you and there's nothing you can do to avoid the collision. Another problem is you can no longer run a yellow light in the city. With a conventional car, the pedestrian hears the car racing. In a hybrid they take their walk light right away and get hit. A hybrid driver does not have the high sitting visibility that an SUV driver has, so extra care is needed. Personally I wouldn't city drive in silent electric mode without buying a lot of ambulance chaser insurance.


106 posted on 01/20/2006 5:47:22 PM PST by Reeses
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To: SuziQ
I don't want a hybrid for it's 'fuel efficiency' though, if it's a little more efficient than what I have now, that would be a bonus. I like the idea that, at most around town speeds, in most towns, the gas engine would never engage. If the car is running on electricity around town, that means that car exhaust and pollutants are not going into the air. It would keep the air in cities much cleaner. That, to me, is as much a benefit as getting a few more mpg, but I'd get that too!

So the poor folks downwind from the power plants get that much more fly ash from the increased kilowatt hours usage from everyone plugging in their battery chargers.

I'd rather the city folks keep their own pollution. It does not seem right that they import their power and let the neighbors of the power plants deal with their increased pollution.

107 posted on 01/20/2006 6:27:13 PM PST by Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)
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To: Ghengis

Well, I don't know about this. I had a 2003 Escape V6 that averaged about 21 mpg overall. My new 2006 Escape Hybrid got 35.43 mpg on its first tank and I have gotten exactly 30.44 mpg in all driving at 1,500 miles. So I don't know where the author is coming from except he doesn't like hybrids.

I didn't buy it for the fuel economy but that is a bonus. I just happened to want to own it because I didn't see any downsides and it has plenty of power. And dead quiet at stoplights since the engine isn't running.


108 posted on 01/20/2006 7:49:34 PM PST by RichardW
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To: Doohickey

"Do I trust Consumer Reports to test cars? No. If I want to read about cars, I'll go get Car and Driver. Then there's this:

And the Ford Escape small sport utility vehicle managed 22 mpg

I don't know how the heck they managed that, but Escape Hybrid averages 30-31 MPG. And I drive to D.C. every day."

If they only got 22 mpg with the Escape Hybrid they must be the worst drivers in the world. Like you I get almost exactly what you get. The average is 30.44 mpg in all driving. I should know. I had a 2003 Escape with the V6 and the Hybrid is at least a 50% improvement and I haven't changed my driving habits.


109 posted on 01/20/2006 7:56:59 PM PST by RichardW
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To: Doohickey
For example, my Hybrid Escape has what Ford calls an Atkinson cycle engine. It's not really that at all; what they've done is retard the timing of the intake valve to reduce pumping loss on the compression stroke (some of the mixture flows back into the intake runners).

Probably the delayed intake closure to which I was referring. It may be that doing that reduces throttle energy waste to the point that there's not much worth harvesting, but otherwise as I said the throttle, if harnessed, would represent better-than-free energy.

110 posted on 01/20/2006 7:58:08 PM PST by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: Thorin
Tax or not, innovation to conservation is going to win the game in an environment of rising fuel prices. Unfortunately money that should be spent by US auto makers to develop a more efficient vehicle is being siphoned to pay off unions and various other parasites that have been allowed to fester.
111 posted on 01/20/2006 8:02:07 PM PST by TBall
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To: CedarDave
THAT'S a good application for a hybrid - run a 110v generator for my power tools. When they make one that will do that, and that I can plug into my utility power to charge the batteries overnite, and a photocell on top of the roof to charge from sunlight during the day and on long drives in daytime, I'll consider buying one.

Maybe.

112 posted on 01/20/2006 8:04:38 PM PST by OKSooner
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To: RichardW
I'm not a hybrid fan by a long shot, but I have to agree that Consumer Reports has a history of coming up with bizarre "real-world" fuel economy numbers.

The Accord Hybrid one seems awfully low. They also managed something like 18 mpg with a Jeep Liberty CRD. Maybe they test cars with the parking brake set.

113 posted on 01/20/2006 8:05:05 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: crz
My 3500 Dodge dually diesel

And if it's one of the newest ones, it no longer sounds like it's Cummins apart....

There is much to be said for high pressure injection... sure quieted those Cummins' down!

114 posted on 01/20/2006 8:36:49 PM PST by NoCmpromiz (John 14:6 is a non-pluralistic comment.)
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To: RWR8189

"prestige of owning such a vehicle,"

Um, maybe English is not this guys first language?
"prestige" should have been embarrassment!

I have owned a LOT of cars, and I am always looking for another, but I will NEVER own one those, and with any luck at all I will never ride in one either!

I notice I have owned several vintage sports cars that equal or better these losers mileage.


115 posted on 01/20/2006 8:45:25 PM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Boundless
Also, they may have some trouble actually testing TDIs, because they are presently illegal in most blue states,

Yep.... The Empire of New York will not allow me to register a new TDI. Anyone have a good used one? Er.. never mind. Anyone with a good used one is keeping it.

Which is why I still drive my '97 Jetta TDI even though it has 327000 miles on it...

Which is just barely broken in, by VW Diesel standards... ;-)

116 posted on 01/20/2006 8:48:42 PM PST by NoCmpromiz (John 14:6 is a non-pluralistic comment.)
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To: RichardW
Well, I don't know about this. I had a 2003 Escape V6 that averaged about 21 mpg overall. My new 2006 Escape Hybrid got 35.43 mpg on its first tank and I have gotten exactly 30.44 mpg in all driving at 1,500 miles. So I don't know where the author is coming from except he doesn't like hybrids.

I didn't buy it for the fuel economy but that is a bonus. I just happened to want to own it because I didn't see any downsides and it has plenty of power. And dead quiet at stoplights since the engine isn't running.

But if you plug it in to charge it up, aren't you displacing the pollution rather than eliminating it? Displacing it to the predominantly rural areas where power plants are located.

Why should those folks breathe the additional pollutants to reduce the same in the more urban area?

117 posted on 01/20/2006 8:49:43 PM PST by Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)
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To: RayChuang88

I would rather have a Bug-Eye Sprite, Triumph Spitfire, or even a Fiat 850.

I can probably buy any one of them, fully restored, for under $8,000
Classics don't depreciate, the modern junk is "upside down" the moment it leaves the dealer!

All of which can get better mileage than the hybrids in the article.


118 posted on 01/20/2006 8:52:05 PM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: dhs12345

You left out PERFORMANCE!

It has to go, it has to stop, it has to handle.
Hybrids don't!


119 posted on 01/20/2006 8:54:20 PM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: SuziQ

What would keep the air in cities even cleaner is a catalytic coating on automotive radiators, breaking down pollutants from other cars in the air as it passed through to cool the engine.

But since this technology had no effect on the vehicle's own tailpipe, it was disincentivized by the government.


120 posted on 01/20/2006 8:56:27 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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