"Intelligent design" not science: Vatican paper

Reuters via Yahoo! ^ | 01/19/06 | Tom Heneghan

[peyton randolph]

PARIS (Reuters) - The Roman Catholic Church has restated its support for evolution with an article praising a U.S. court decision that rejects the "intelligent design" theory as non-scientific.

The Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano said that teaching intelligent design -- which argues that life is so complex that it needed a supernatural creator -- alongside Darwin's theory of evolution would only cause confusion...

A court in the state of Pennsylvania last month barred a school from teaching intelligent design (ID), a blow to Christian conservatives who want it to be taught in biology classes along with the Darwinism they oppose.

[PatrickHenry]

He was notoriously bad about reporting his findings to other scientists, and many of his other defenses were flat our wrong(his argument based on the tides for example).

There wasn't much of an established practice of publication and peer review back in those days. Most often, people like Galileo just corresponded with like-minded people. Or sometimes published books. As for the tides, yes, he was off a bit there, but that's not what got him convicted for heresy. A few links, for those who may be interested:

The Crime of Galileo: Indictment and Abjuration of 1633. The heresy confession.
Trial of Galileo Galilei in 1633.
Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany. Galileo's opinion about science/scripture conflicts.
Ichneumon's excellent presentation of the issues. FreeRepublic post #31.

[b_sharp]

I just hate it when ween goes through phases. Ween becomes just too darn unpredictable.

[furball4paws]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1343600/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1343600/posts

Read 'em and weep.

[b_sharp]

That one is definitely borderline. I was directed at those who bash catholics which could be creationists or evos or ...

It wasn't directed at another poster so I'll give it a 1/2 mark.

Evos 1/2
AntiEvos 2

[PatrickHenry]

I make one typo in six years, and look at the grief it's causing me. I get no respect.

[b_sharp]

Another 1/2 attack.

Evos 1
AntiEvos 2

[plain talk]

yawn. Demonstrate a single cell creature developing into a human being and perhaps someone may consider your pathetic brainwashed point of view.

[furball4paws]

Pathos, pathos. My whole life is immersed in pathos - placemarker.

[xmission]

Another 1/2 attack.

I'd give number 4 a whole mark. It was directed to payton who looks like a full blown evo from his posts, in anticipation of the creationists showing up.

I can't vouch for the anti-evo posts you are scoring because I have no way of telling which posts you are referring to.

[b_sharp]

1. Best Bond Girl - All of them with long lovely legs.

2. Best Bond movie. - In Her Majesty's Service.

3. Greatest name. - This one makes me tongue tied - Pussy Galore.

[b_sharp]

"pole = poll

"and I'll whack myself over the head with it, too.

Your post subject is quite a jump from the thread topic.

[xmission]

This one makes me tongue tied - Pussy Galore.

I can hear Connery with his accent saying "I must be dreaming" after she told him her name!

[furball4paws]

Think there will be any more?

And why does the juxtaposition of "tongue" and "pussy" cause you so much consternation?

[furball4paws]

comic relief - we need it. Not many bites, though.

[furball4paws]

"2. Best Bond movie. - In Her Majesty's Service."

Spoken like a true colonial.

[b_sharp]

"I think we agree. If it lasts it could fit in the definition of evolution, if it doesn't it's simply a one time mutation.

A good number of mutations are neutral, meaning they are not 'noticed' by selection so really do not contribute to the evolution of the population. Of course that neutral mutation may be noticed by selection later if the environment changes.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" As for the intro, it was prudent, as he didn't really have the data necessary to prove beyond a doubt what he said."

He still shouldn't have had to fear legal reprisals for daring to challenge accepted views, scientific or religious.

[furball4paws]

I make a serious post and get called "pathetic brainwashed" but a nitwit.

Bond girls are at least delicious to look at ;)

[b_sharp]

"Sounds like we are on the same page. I was questioning a post that said basically that the changes in how you look and how your children look is evolution. Maybe I don't understand your point?

No, I don't think you missed the point. The problem is in the recognition of the point where the change is not just a few individuals but the population as a whole.

There is a caveat to that though, there are times when small subpopulations start restricting who they interbreed with and can end up evolving in a different direction and at a different rate than the larger population.

[jec41]

I could see your argument if you were saying that I could see your argument if you were saying that mutations are a step that can lead to evolution instead of saying that they are evolution. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

I think it is a question of semantics. If the horses were severely mutated and developed six legs most would say that evolution (change) has occurred. If it is a small mutation of a spot that appears and then disappears then change has occurred twice. I don't suppose that it would be incorrect to say mutations are a step that can lead to evolution. I could make a case for the statement. Mutation is change and evolution is change. Therefore change can cause other change. It would depend on the definition of mutation but if change does not occur neither does mutation.