Posted on 01/18/2006 7:07:38 AM PST by yoe
CAN CERTAINLY understand the uproar over President Bush's flagrant abuses of civil liberties. This is America. What right does that fascist in the White House have to imprison Michael Moore, wiretap Nancy Pelosi and blackmail Howard Dean?
Wait. You mean he hasn't done those things? All he's done is intercept communications between terrorists abroad and their contacts in the U.S. without a court order? Talk about defining impeachable offenses downward.
If you want to see real abuses of civil liberties, read Geoffrey R. Stone's 2004 book "Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime from the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terrorism." It tells how John Adams jailed a congressman for criticizing his "continual grasp for power." How Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and had the army arrest up to 38,000 civilians suspected of undermining the Union cause. How Woodrow Wilson imprisoned Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs for opposing U.S. entry into World War I. And how Franklin D. Roosevelt consigned 120,000 Japanese Americans to detention camps.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
You can also read about how presidents from FDR to Richard Nixon used the FBI to spy on, and occasionally blackmail and harass, their political opponents. The Senate's Church Committee in 1976 blew the whistle on decades of misconduct, including FBI investigations of such nefarious characters as Eleanor Roosevelt, William O. Douglas, Barry Goldwater and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
bookmarked for future debate...bttt
On the other hand, if President Bush were not doing what he's doing, they'd claim how he "failed to connect the dots" when another attack takes place. Since they can't find a way to make that lie work, they want to keep anyone from even seeing the "dots", thus making an attack inevitable and increasing their chances of regaining power. It's all a "heads I win/tails you lose" proposition. In a sane world, these seditious traitors WOULD, in fact, be locked up.
"My natural inclination is to support and trust the President, but I must say, if Clinton were doing this exact thing under the exact same circumstances, I just know we'd be completely outraged."
Clinton did do it, as did Bush Senior, Reagan and Carter. The left is making this out to be a wiretapping debate which it isn't.
If Clinton was doing the exact same thing against a foreign foe who had killed 3000 American Civilians, we would be cheering him. The problem is, while putting up the sanctimonious Gorlic wall between Intelligence and Law enforcement agencies, the Clinton Admin used all sorts of strong arm tactics against it's domestic political opposition. Read the Barret Report when it comes out. The opposition to Clinton was based on his complete failure to do the things he WAS SUPPOSE to be doing to protect the Country.
Please quit confusing your feelings for Clinton with facts.
Also Liberals don't understand that when we cite the Clinton Administration's use of Echelon, we are not using that as an excuse for Bush, we are saying that Clinton was right.
Bob Barr at least is being consitant. He was against Echelon in 1996.
Call you an old fool instead, since you cannot see the difference between "Big brother" and intelligence operations against Foreign Foes. Once those citizens started acting as agents of Al Qeda, they switched from being members of, to enemies of, our civil society.
Anyone concerned with real abuse of citizens' rights should call for the immediate release of the UNREDACTED Barrett Report.
THIS from the LA Slime?
The skating rink opened in Hades, too?
I understand your feelings but support this President, he does have integrity - there are many in this country working with others outside of our borders to see America terrorized. So far we have dodged another 'bullet 'by the timely and “wall-less” Patriot Act.
bump for later
thank goodness Max Boot is around the Left Angeles Times...
at least the mindless & ill informed(read stupid LOL) have a small dose of the truth to read from time to time in the op/ed pages even if the "news" on the front page is still Left and inaccurate.
Yeah right. Cheering him.
Son, it's you who doesn't have his facts completely right. No one, not even liberals, are disturbed by the U.S. spying on foreign foes.
Where any anti-government Conservative should be a little alarmed is with the fact that warrantless spying is being done on American citizens, despite the fact that warrants can easily be obtained from the secret court 72 hours after the executive order is issued.
I don't care who the President is, unchecked executive authority to me is unAmerican. I give President Bush the benefit of the doubt, but explanations need to be made. I love him, but he's not a King.
And let me tell you, there is not one Conservative who would be (or should be) comfortable with the likes of Bill Clinton ordering warrantless searches on any citizen...you know it, and I know it.
Somehow, that word has come to mean "giving the government as much power as they want to 'protect' me from the dreaded terrorists - and agreeing with every pronouncement the government makes about their need for yet another expansion of power." I guess there are a lot of words that could be applied to that approach, but 'conservative' ain't one of them.
How's that for circular logic?
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