Deputy shoots teen in school standoff

The Orlando Sentinel ^ | January 14, 2006 | Gary Taylor and Rene Stutzman

[Chanticleer]

A girl? An argument with a friend? I'm not sure they know yet.

But if he threatened to blow up a bus last year, the young man has some serious issues. I pray he survives and gets help.

[TalBlack]

New national training in the wake of Columbine.



No it isn't. It is the resumption of OLD training ie: cop does job.

[Chanticleer]

I don't get it either. Guess I'm in denial -- I wrote that I was in school in the 80s, but that's only slightly true! I graduate in 1980. I went to high school at Lyman, only a mile or so away from Milwee, from 1976-1980. I remember once someone had a knife on the bus, and it caused a big ruckus. I'm sure there were fist fights and arguments, maybe even threats of violence. Bomb threats always seemed to happen around finals time. I think events like Columbine have forced authorities to take threats much more seriously.

[Chanticleer]

What would you recommend? He was armed (as far as they knew) and had been threatening. They reportedly pleaded with him to drop it. But when he pointed a pistol at the SWAT Team member, what else should he have done?

I suppose they could have left him alone in the bathroom for a while to cool off -- surrounding it to keep the public safe. They might have tried to get his parents there, or a friend or pastor who might have been able to reason with him. But then, if he had killed himself, they'd be in trouble for leaving him alone. If he hurt someone else, again, they're in trouble.

It seems like the time to help this kid was when he threatened to blow up the bus. I wonder what sort of help he received. I hope he pulls through and gets help now.

[SVTCobra03]

"IMO, the boy could have been disabled in other ways or otherwise isolated. I am sick of the 'trigger time' mentality of SWAT members."

Well I am sick of monday-morning quarterbacks who second guess policemen who only have a split second to make life and death decisions. These people put thier lives on the line every day to keep us safe. If someone points a gun at you, you blow his ass away. End of story.

[dglang]

I'm located in Longwood, between 427 and Grant, south of 434. One of my kids went to Milwee and three went to Lyman.

[robertpaulsen]

"The pellet gun is powered by a carbon-dioxide gas cartridge. Barrels on such guns are normally red or pink, to distinguish them from real guns, Eslinger said. But the barrel on Chris' gun, he said, had been painted black and was virtually identical to the real thing."

Related subject:

Why wouldn't a bad guy paint the barrel of his real gun red or pink to give him a split-second advantage over the cop? I never understood this stupid law.

[Chanticleer]

Former neighbors! I used to live off of 434. Hope you and your children are well.

[Banjoguy]

Chanticleer, You have put forth some good ideas. There are many others.

If he dies by his own hand that is another story entirely. IMO, the police would have had no control over that and could not have been held responsible.

SVTCobra03, You purposely mischaracterised my remarks. As a citizen, I feel perfectly justified in criticising the police when they deserve it. I don't always buy the 'split second decision' argument, especially when it smacks of failure to employ rational means other than confrontation. I mean, how much smarter are we than a fifteen year old?

The decision to have a sniper take out the Orlando bank robber who had a hostage in a vehicle was perfectly justified however.

[eeevil conservative]

I would never want YOU charged with the safety of MY children.

I don't care if it were a TEN YEAR OLD! A gun is a WEAPON- NOT A TOY!

It is not the SWAT TEAM's job to get this kid counseling, it is not their job to psycho-analyze the PERP with a GUN in a SCHOOL of CHILDREN. It is their job to protect the lives of the INNOCENT people that the PERP has endangered. It is their job to secure the premises and provide safety. IF IN THE COURSE OF THIS JOB- THEIR LIFE (or the life of anyone else)is THREATENED- THEN they have the authority and the OBLIGATION to use deadly force if necessary. What if this man had been shot and killed by this PERP? Then what? What if he shot and killed him- then is the the next SWAT team member aloud to shoot and protect? How many people have to die before a gun-weilding perp is accountable for waving a gun and pointing it at people?

This child's condition is horrific- and there are PLENTY of people to blame... BUT NOT THE OFFICER THAT SHOT HIM! In fact- if I were the officer- I would be wanting to see heads roll for putting this child- the other children, and the police officers in danger because they did not get this child help LAST YEAR! HOW DARE this officer be PUT INTO THIS SITUATION by this 15-yr old- his parents- the schools, etc....


/rant off

[Chanticleer]

I'm still not convinced the deputies deserve criticism. I know little about handling such crises. I do think it is reasonable and necessary to ask questions. I do not think it is reasonable to make judgments without all the information or a complete understanding of the situation.

I have four children, including two teenage boys. Normal teenagers can be very difficult to reason with -- this boy was especially troubled. An adult may be "smarter" than a 15-year old, but an angry 15-year old with a gun can be every bit as deadly.

I am sure that in this case, as with every case in which a deputy is involved in a shooting, there will be a thorough investigation. Because it involves a child, the situation should be even more carefully scrutinized, and if errors were made, the Sheriff needs to be forthcoming about them. I'm just not ready to assume that errors were made.

[xroadie]

I think you are correct. They may have expanded the definition of violence, even beyond the little scraps many of us have gotten into. Bullying? Harassment?
That number seems really high. Why would a counselors' organization inflate the numbers?
Self interest, perhaps.

[Chanticleer]

Why wouldn't a bad guy paint the barrel of his real gun red or pink to give him a split-second advantage over the cop? I never understood this stupid law.

I've wondered that myself.

[elbucko]

According to ASCA, more than half of 6th-12th graders report being involved in at least one violent act a year.

I find this difficult to believe. Any thoughts?

I believe that the 6th-12th graders were asked questions about violence in a way that would elicit a response of at least one violent act a year. Whether the statistic is factually true of actual violence is doubtful.

In court, questions designed to elicit a desired response are considered "leading the witness" to a desired conclusion. Without the context and text of the question, the statistic is suspect.

[Banjoguy]

Thanks for your thoughts.
Ed

[oh8eleven]

how about some alternative methods for dealing with self destructive people.
Yeah, I'm with you dude. Like we could beat them senseless with a .... banjo.

[Chanticleer]

Only once or possibly not at all. My thirteen year old eighth grader will turn 14 in March. In Florida, mandatory school age begins the school year in which the child turns 6 by February 1st, and kindergarten is virtually mandatory. My five year old son won't turn six until March, so I could have waited until next year to begin kindergarten with him. If we had taken that route, he would be 15 at the end of his eighth grade year.

Many parents choose to give the child the extra time to mature -- especially parents of active little boys.

[Chanticleer]

Considering it's before February 1st now, he probably was held back a year. But in a few weeks from now, you wouldn't be able to assume so.