Posted on 01/10/2006 1:49:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
SUSHI DAS discovers what men think about feminism.
'FEMINISM has turned women into selfish, spoiled, spiteful, powerless victims," shrieked the email. "Men are talking, can't you hear it? Marriage rates are down, birthrates are down, men are using women for their pleasure and then leaving them."
If it was only one of a handful of emails I received, I might not have given it much thought. But there were many more. "I do not think it's men or boys that need reforming. I think women are the main instigators of hate against one half of the population," wrote another man.
Then there was this: "I have healthy relationships with women and always have protected sex to avoid entrapment … why should I risk losing everything I own and having my children taken away from me?"
And this: "The modern guy is not looking for the 'services' past generations did, they often just want a nice person to share their life with, rather than someone who is going to be climbing corporate ladders, getting pregnant when she chooses and then assuming complete control of a child's life. That is not to say they are not supportive of women's careers and goals."
The emails were a response to a challenge I posed to men on this page a couple of weeks ago. Specifically, I asked them to engage in debates relating to "feminist issues" and show they understood that equality, women's rights, the work/life imbalance, the declining birthrate, sexual politics and relationships generally are important to everybody, not just women.
I received, a tsunami of emails. Many were considered arguments. A significant number were the bitter outpourings of men hurt by women. Some elucidated the frustrations of men who couldn't find Ms Right. Sadly, many were simply vitriolic or abusive.
In the hundreds of emails, anger appeared to be the underlying emotion because the writers believed the pendulum had swung too far in favour of women. There were some common threads: men were angry that women's needs took priority over theirs; they felt men constituted the majority of the unemployed, the homeless, the victims of industrial accidents and suicides, that men's health received less funding than women's, and that boys' education was poor. In relationships, they felt some women were "not very nice to men" and were often too selfish to consider their needs. These concerns are real,
but how many can really be blamed on feminism?
Essentially, men raised three broad concerns over why they did not engage in the debate on feminist issues. First, they were scared of being howled down by aggressive feminists who dismissed their views. Second, they felt they were victims too, but women didn't listen to them. Third, they were confused about what women really wanted and what constituted appropriate behaviour.
On the first issue, I agree, some women are dismissive of men's views simply because they are men. Men who speak out, wrote one man, are "smashed upon the rocks of indignation" and this made it "a very, very scary debate to engage with". Another said: "Opting out of an argument in which we cannot hope to be allowed an equal voice let alone a fair outcome is a perfectly rational response."
My response? Get over it. If you're a man and you have an opinion, speak out. Put your case. It will stand or fall on its merit. Stop being scared. There are plenty of women willing to listen. And if you get howled down, get up and say it again. That's how women got their voices heard in the 1970s.
On the issue of men as victims, some argued women too are violent, that men have few rights on abortion, that female teachers get off more lightly when they sexually abuse male students, that men are vilified as pedophiles, that affirmative action is discriminatory, that women frequently win the custody battle. Clearly these concerns require attention. Perhaps it is governments that are not listening to men, rather than women.
Finally, some men were unsure of their role in society. This is complex, and women must recognise this. But men should also let common decency be their guide to appropriate behaviour. Being a decent human being shouldn't be that hard.
Equality is a prerequisite for development. When the shouting from our respective corners is over, perhaps resentment from both sides will melt.
Many emails I received were a cry from the heart from men. But it's not just about women listening to their words, it's about men taking action to improve their own lives. This means speaking out, whatever the consequences — engaging in the debate on equality or feminism or whatever it is called these days.
With that in mind, I'll leave the last words to a man: "Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We need to speak though. We do not want our daughters growing up stunted by arguments or situations that could have been campaigned away. Equally, our sons require education. But how do we do this with integrity? That's the challenge for all involved."
I think so too. And enough people have believed it to make a mess of a society that once worked tolerably well.
Well, on that cheerful note I must excuse myself; my alarm goes off at 6am and I have to get things done now that I won't want to do at 6. Nice talking to you.
Marriage ought to be pretty simple...you care for each other, you listen to each other...you take care of each other's needs. That's what marriage ought to be.
For too many of my male friends, there isn't room for their needs, only their wife's needs. Someone can be guilted into compliance short term, but it's not viable long term.
I'm a businessman...I understand that for any partnership to work, there's got to be something in it for all involved. I would never expect my wife to be married to me if I didn't worry about her needs and desires.
Feminism has tried to convince women that men are the enemy, and that it's all about their needs. It's a prescription for short, nasty, brutish marriages.
I've married twice. If this marriage didn't last for whatever reason, I don't think I'd remarry.
I would never presume to tell anyone how to live their life, especially my wife. I ask, but I don't demand. Selfishness seems to be in the water, in the air...I'm not going to argue. At some point men have started asking themselves, "Is this working for me?" If not...
Ultimately, it's not a question of whether you were able to get married. It's a question of whether statistically significant numbers of couples will do so in the future. The signs are not good.
It's not just your company. Where I work, the HR dept. has five female employees, 0 male. Of the Supervisor staff, approx. 65% are female. Since the place has opened, 5 females have received promotions to the second level of Supervisor. One male has. I guess there is one saving grace, though. The employees absolutely love the male managers and absolutely dread the females (ever worked for a woman? I have. Hell on Earth). Heck, I've even fired people, and they come back later as a re-hire and the first thing they ask is "Is idontliketopaytaxes still here? I want to be on his team" Now if that ain't loyalty, I don't know what is. :)
I couldn't disagree more. I work with dozens upon dozens of amazingly attractive young ladies. They are constantly flirting (seriously flirting) with me and my other supervisor buddy. We're both in our mid and late 30s.
If you are a relatively attractive male with a decent job, you will be desirable to the young ladies. Trust me on that one. :)
Yeah. These days, those good ol' "southern girls" are smokin' dope at 10 and having sex at 12 and bisexual sex at 14. I hear their stories weekly.
Times have changed, folks. That's why men are so disgruntled.
Yup...they know what side their bread is buttered on...and they love you sincerely!!!
By the looks of your pics, I can understand that. Women LOVE the "badboy" look. There are more drop dead gorgeous divorced single mothers where I work that have ex-con "baby daddies"....sheesh.....
Not saying your an ex con or anying, but the whole badboy, beard, piercings, motorcycle, leather, outlaw thing drives girls nuts!
Where does it ever end.
I was going to say that (months ago, in another thread, incidentally) but I figured it was undiplomatic. Now that it's out, I have to concur (even if it is a cultural cliche, which it is, somewhat).
I for one would change my wife's tires and keep the yard and pool and all those things that a husband should know its his job to do. As far as doing your own laundry and cooking and all that, thats a good point to make about feminism. My dad went from home to basically getting married. He really had no time to learn to do these things by himself. I however had been doing my own laundry and cooking my own meals for 10 years before I got married. Every single man I know is in their 30's and can cook and do all that stuff anyway. The kicker is when you meet a girl who can't cook. Wow! I still do my laundry when I need it. You see, men have stopped having to rely on women to take care of those basics needs because #1 they usually live by themselves for years before marriage. #2.Feminist women don't like to do "womens work". #3. Unless a woman feels its her job to take care of the house, a man will continue with that once married unless he lets his wife know he expects cooked meals at dinner.
As far as Christmas cards and all the card sending, that is not a necessity and men would never do it anyway.
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