CA: The Minimum Wage Calamity

CaliforniaRepublic.org ^ | 1/5/06 | Ray Haynes

[hybrid]

How, precisely, is one person doing something one time a "good experiment"?

Actually, the point of the book is that millions of people are doing the same thing, everyday. She is just the first one of them that happened to be a published writer.

Did you read the book?

[Conservative Goddess]

"We all talk advantage of the services they provide, or probably will one day."

When you take advantage of the services they provide, by all means, pay them what the service is worth to you at that time. The government has no business stipulating the value of the exchange.

[mewzilla]

According to an analysis produced by the National Center of Policy Analysis, “The primary cause of low income, …, is no wages, not low wages.” They conclude that most of those who earn low wages are either teen-agers or other secondary earners spread rather evenly across the income distribution scale. According to a summary of their analysis, “While the single mother trying to support her child on a full-time minimum wage job is a better story, the 16-year-old hamburger-flipping student with college-educated and employed parents is a better fact.” Low-income families have a large number of people without jobs and without the skills to get a job. A mandated minimum wage forces them even further out of the job market.

Economic eugenics.

[hybrid]

Most of the Wal-Mart and McDonald's workers are part-timers, kids in high school or college, or those using it as a 2nd job. If you consider Wal-Mart or McDonald's a lifetime career choice, then something is seriously wrong with you.

I hate to say this, but you are incredibly wrong in regards to... all aspects of that sentence. I've known people that did the 'work yourself up' at McD's... years ago, mind you. And I know that both corps encourage you to make a 'career' out of it. But the most common long-term worker I tend to run into at these locations tend to be mothers/fathers struggling to support a family. Often it is the only 'second job' they can find, and are attempting to work around their kids' schedule.

[hybrid]

You didn't mention if you knew many poor people. :)

[Conservative Goddess]

"In other words, if you are poor it is your own damn fault?"

Ah, yeah. The result of bad choices made along the way. Too many Americans think the world owes them a living. It doesn't. The poorest Americans still have running water, sanitation, TV, telephone, electricity, etc. You don't know what poverty is. I suggest that you go to a third world country...pop in on the "rich" there....then come back to the US, crying in your beer about "the poor." Your naivete is stunning.

[hybrid]

That would depend on what each is charging. Which means that the poor guy gets screwed by minimum wage laws since they limit his ability to compete by offering a lower price.

Dude, you are missing the point. Minimum wage is not living wage these days. It has not kept up with inflation. Offering LESS money than minimum wage is not going to enable any of the poor to dig out of their hole. He can't 'compete' because nobody WANTS him to compete. Nobody WANTS to see the guy with the ugly shoes and badly fitting suit in their office. He will never be able to compete for an office job. And an office job is, quite literally, one of the few areas where you can possibly move up and earn a decent living. Manufacturing? dying. moving. Farming? Not viable in most areas; land is too expensive. Labor? mostly operating machines these days, far more limited.

So what should they do?

[bert]

Employer's greatest responsibility is to make a profit. Actions contrary to the market are irresponsible.

An employee is free to go where ever he can get the most pay. Slavery in not legal.

You are suggesting paying a premium for incompetance.

[palmer]

I see employers living the extremely high-life while they pay their employees a meager salary. The first example I could give of that would be nursing home owners, but I could go on.

My first real job was in a nursing home. The owner worked in the front office, I worked in the kitchen. Had the minimum wage been higher, there would have been two outcomes: the less likely one is I would have lost my job. The more likely one is everybody else, including wage-earners for families, would have been paid a little bit less.

[hybrid]

Ah, yeah. The result of bad choices made along the way.

So, a bad choice that leaves you bankrupt and homeless means you deserve to be homeless for... well, you don't deserve any help to STOP being homeless. SO... you'll probably continue to be homeless. (just statistics there)

Too many Americans think the world owes them a living

Nope. Just a decent paying job. If you work 40+ hours a week, as hard as you can, and cannot pay your bills no matter what you do... so you take a second job, working another 20+ a week... and exhaust yourself, completely, and remain unable to get ahead. I've *been* there. Sheer luck got ME out of that hole. That, and my mom is a great lady.

The poorest Americans still have running water, sanitation, TV, telephone, electricity, etc.

Not all of them, not everwhere. Also, I am tired of everyone assuming that if you have any electronics or furniture you must be fine. I grab stuff for free from college students; it is the only reason I have a couch.

You don't know what poverty is. I suggest that you go to a third world country...pop in on the "rich" there....then come back to the US, crying in your beer about "the poor." Your naivete is stunning.

You are assuming a great many things with that last line. You assume I don't know how people in other countries live. I am not saying that our poor aren't better off than they would be if they lived in... oh, Africa or the Middle East. This isn't about other places. This is about HERE.

[hybrid]

I gotta ask, cause I've seen this over and over and OVER again.
Have any of you, anywhere, ever seen a store lay off people because the minimum wage went up and they couldn't afford to keep everyone?
I have personally never seen it happen.

[yellowdoghunter]

I suggest that you go to a third world country...pop in on the "rich" there....then come back to the US, crying in your beer about "the poor." Your naivete is stunning.

I will grant you that. I spent time in Columbia and my parents lived there for quite awhile. Most Americans have no idea what poor really is. However, we now see the poor rising up and electing Socialist in Venezuela, Bolivia, etc...because the rich were so rich (and believe me the rich live like Kings and Queens) and the poor so poor, there was nothing in between. I hope America does not turn into that.

Not that I am in favor of Socialism, but I understand why the people rose up over there and demanded change.

[yellowdoghunter]

The owner worked in the front office...

Wonder how much the owner was making?????

[palmer]

It's a bit of a red herring question. The NH I worked at had a limited budget for salaries but a rise in minimum would have only affected a couple of people like me (I was 16-17). An increase for me might have meant a slight decrease or raises withheld for the others.

[Conservative Goddess]

A bad choice that leaves you homeless does not give you, or the government the moral authority to demand that I contribute to the "BAIL YOU OUT" fund.

Sheer luck got you out of the hole? Where would you have been but for the hard work? The hard work played no role in your exit from "the hole?" Buncombe. I have been there. Worked my way out of the hole and I'm better for it. Your bills do not dictate the value of your work. Your wage should dictate the level of your spending.

You grab stuff free from college students? Bwahhahahah. You are still better off than 99% of the world. The world, this country, does not owe you a specified standard of living.

I've lived in other parts of the world and I repeat, Your naivete is stunning.

[palmer]

He made everything that wasn't being paid to us. He drove a Cadillac but I was respectful not resentful because that was my upbringing. I think a lot of attitudes about the "rich" are passed down like that.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

But the most common long-term worker I tend to run into at these locations tend to be mothers/fathers struggling to support a family. Often it is the only 'second job' they can find, and are attempting to work around their kids' schedule.

You are insinuating that the "mothers/fathers" you cite are those who previously had careers but lost their jobs to the evil Bush regime and are now "struggling" to make ends meet by working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart. This sounds like a CBS Evening News report. I'll bet that the mothers and fathers in questions are those who are in their late teens or early 20s with low job skills who made poor decisions (by partying and having kids early) instead of planning for their future.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

You didn't mention if you knew many poor people

No, I don't.

All my friends and family members worked their way up from scratch and are doing well in their respective fields of employment.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Have any of you, anywhere, ever seen a store lay off people because the minimum wage went up and they couldn't afford to keep everyone?

It doesn't happen overnight.

The business owner will try hard to retain his employees and look for other ways to cut costs before reluctantly deciding to terminate the least productive employee or employees.

[TheLion]

Aren't union salaries in multiples of the minimum wage?.