US-German Relations - Berlin's Concern about America's Image

Der Spiegel ^ | January 4, 2006 | David Crossland

[Atlantic Bridge]

German Chancellor Angela Merkel can look forward to the red-carpet treatment in Washington next week as US President George Bush -- who never got on with her predecessor Gerhard Schröder -- hopes to signal a fresh start. But a top German official warns that despite improving trans-Atlantic ties, America's reputation among the European public is waning.

[yankeedame]

"I'm concerned that the image of America as a haven of state legality where the state protects the personal freedom of individuals has suffered," said Karsten Voigt, the German Foreign Ministry's co-ordinator for German-American cooperation, who will be traveling in Merkel's delegation during her visit on Jan. 13. "I hope people in the US are aware of problem."

Ah,what gracious condescension.

[wildcatf4f3]

Its the death of the white man. Europe committed suicide in 1914 , at the height of her global power. There was no more to conquer so they turned on each other. the loss of the finest men of Europe in both world wars has left her wanting in these times. Pardon, but you cannot kill off the cream of your youth 2 generations in a row and expect to have great leaders now. The height of European intellectual political power happened in the late 1700s. Its child was born on the north American continent. The same ideas were rejected in the old country. What has followed, namely Marxism is degenerate. It is not creative, it abhors creativity. There is no hope for Europe until she is subsumed by Islam and has to fight for her freedom again. Only by losing her Western rights will her people again come to cherish those rights. America will stand alone against the tide of barbarism that is rising from the Eurasian landmass.

[MNJohnnie]

Always find it interesting in listening to European Intellectuals how much they hate America right up to the point I suggest we should abolish NATO.

They all like to claim life is so much better in Europe. Wonder how great it will be when they actually have to assume responsibility for their own National Defense? For 60 years Europe shoves it self defense responsibilities (and costs) onto the USA and then whines when the USA does NOT give them veto power over our National Security Policy.

Tell you what Europe, when the 9-11 event happens in the EU, don't call on us to save you again.

I know, we will ride to the rescue again when it happens. We, as Americans, are stupid that way but MAN, just ONE time I wish the EU "Intellectuals" would quit whining! IF the EU wants to play a role in World Politics, the EUROPE, PAY THE COSTS to do so. All those US tanks, infantryman, aircraft and aircraft carriers et al we send everywhere are incredibly expense! Until you were willing to assume the REPONSIBLITY Europe DO NOT assume you have some sort of moral right to dictate policy to US.

We would be MORE then happy to share the burdens if Europe will QUIT WHINEING AND ASSUME some of them! We STILL send troops to the Balkans for you for Christ sake. IF you all cannot even manage YOUR OWN BACK YARD with out us, what are you all whining about?

[Lancey Howard]

What you said. Bump.

[MNJohnnie]

I'm concerned that the image of America as a haven of state legality where the state protects the personal freedom of individuals has suffered," said Karsten Voigt, the German Foreign Minis

What an absurdly stupid thing for a grandchild of a Nazi to say. Um NO stupor twit. The rights of the individual have suffered NOTHING in the USA. Funny how the Germans outlaw Neo Nazi groups and symbols yet WE are condemned for keeping an eye on Terrorist sympathizers. Sorry the Individual does NOT have a right to act as an agent of a terrorists group. That action makes them an ENEMY OF, not a MEMBER OF, our society.

[Rokke]

"Besides of that you should realize that Germany is as the third largest economy still one of the most powerful economical blocks in this world. I.e. we export more goods than the US. Proof? "

That is the first time I have heard the amount a country exports used as the key indicator of its economic strength. The reality is, Germany is increasingly becoming a mere "middle man" in world trade. The amount of imported contents in what it subsequently exports has risen dramatically in the last decade, significantly reducing the net value gained by its "exports". Meanwhile, its domestic economy remains as sluggish as ever. There is a reason for Germany's double digit unemployment, and it isn't overall economic health.

[Atlantic Bridge]

There was no more to conquer so they turned on each other. the loss of the finest men of Europe in both world wars has left her wanting in these times. Pardon, but you cannot kill off the cream of your youth 2 generations in a row and expect to have great leaders now.

This is an often used argument to bash Germans here in FR. If this is true than tell me why Germany is still one of most prosperous nations on this planet? We Germans live in big wealth, our goods must be more competitive than those of other nations since we export more than they do. We arranged ourselves quite good on this planet. Intellectual degeneration is different to me. There are many things you can blame on Germany. But intellectual degeneration? I do not know.

[MNJohnnie]

Yep, I agree the US should just allow the EU to sort out it own problems. Sort of like Detente with the Chinese. Mao warned Nixon that there would be times when for domestic reasons the Chinese would fire "paper cannons" at the US. I think the US should just go about it business. Cooperate with the EU when possible, ignore it as needed. I think the problem is on the EU side. I do NOT think Europe has made piece with the fact that after being the center of the world for 1000 years, History has moved beyond it. Europe was offered a chance to be part of the 21st Century Leadership team by GW Bush and choose instead to stand on the side lines and grandstand.

Fine. We will move on along about our business and leave you to Europe to it's grandstanding. The future always belongs to the doers, not the critics.

[Robert Teesdale]

I don't quibble with your analysis of the leftist nonsense causing such idiocy in German public opinion. What is happening on our side of the Atlantic, however, is that Americans are ceasing to care if Europe survives.

Europe is making the decision that their adherence to an insanely suicidal and wierdly invented concept of multiculturism is more important than the survival of their primary historic culture and values.

Americans have not. We're prepared, by contrast, to defend our values and way of life with expeditionary application of lethal State force.

The European Union is unsustainable... but Eurabia has a real shot at it.

A final note (and not aimed at you personally). Americans find it difficult to accept any form of moral posturing from Germans. While we do recognize that Germans today are not personally responsible for the Holocaust, it isn't forgotten that Germany caused two world wars and incalculable human suffering by deliberately attempting (and nearly succeeding) to murder every Jew on the continent. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Cindy]

ON THE NET...

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/

[Berlin_Freeper]

"America's reputation among the European public is waning."

Whenever some filthy blow-hard idiot wants to sling some mud at The US, the very first thing they try to do is claim to be speaking for "the world" or like in this case "European public".

What we have here is the Left biased Der Spiegel, cringing at the thought of a happy President George W Bush and Chancellor Angela Merkel getting along very well.

They know that next week they will be forced to show on their own front page the two of them cementing a friendship and they simply can't stomach this turn of events.

To them President Bush is the "war monger", but that is only to the extreme butthead Left. Meanwhile Schröder was supposed to be collecting his Nobel Peace Prize by now and be the shinning miracle man of Europe.

But look at how all that turned out for them (excuse me while I snicker).

Der Spiegel is displaying nothing but petty jealousy here. And are in desperate need to soothe their damaged psyche. So they print this bash on the US. There is no excuse for it, but that is what they are doing. The fact that they got some Americans angry with their nonsense will only further their accomplishment.

And there is the proof in the pudding. Can it be said that normal well reasoned people would be printing insulting BS at the dawn of a reaffirmed friendship? Heck no! These jerks are nothing but scummy bastards who make the worst kind of politics because they are devoid of any intelligent thought. Yet we are to accept that they can accurately describe to us what the "European public" thinks of The US?

I seriously think not.

There has been enough water under the bridge that the "European public" can very well see what the US is achieving in the Middle East. But just like in the US there is a silent majority that is not being represented in the Left Media.

And I will PROVE it to you with this astonishing FACT...

In the US during the 2004 election, Bild (which is Germany's biggest newspaper, tabloid but it is still the biggest) endorsed President Bush over Kerry.

Now let Der Spiegel choke on that one while they try to convince us they speak for the "European public".

They don't, they don't even speak for the silent majority Germans!

[Prince Charles]

The problem is, concerning human rights, that image of Russia is probably much better than the contempoary image of the US in mainstream Europe.

Liberalism is a mental disorder. Cradle to grave socialism naturally has made Adolf Q. Public see that he has more in common with communists-turned-socialists than the Americans who lifted them out of the Stone Age a few generations ago.

[Hong Kong Expat]

Germany needs time? Just how old is that nation/organization/fiefdom/state/federation?

Depending on what measure you want to use, about 100, 60 or 15 years old. Prussian Wars, WWII or fall of the Berlin Wall.

[Atlantic Bridge]

In the US during the 2004 election, Bild (which is Germany's biggest newspaper, tabloid but it is still the biggest) endorsed President Bush over Kerry. Now let Der Spiegel choke on that one while they try to convince us they speak for the "European public". They don't, they don't even speak for the silent majority Germans!

This is a good point. It shows that there is hope. My compatriots are flooded with leftist BS round the clock. There is a chance for a political u-turn if Merkel gets enough time.

[wildcatf4f3]

I am refering to political philosophy not technology. The socialists we have over here are misfits and weaklings who are afraid of freedom. We are Americans and think differently than Europeans. I still go out and cut down trees for firewood, I am self employed, I restore old Italian cars, I DON'T WANT ANYONE'S HELP., and certainly not the government's. Yes, the German people have been a tremendous force in music and the sciences but their embrace of socialism, both cultural and economic will do exactly what its creators intended it to do. To destroy Western culture is its raison d'etre and it is suceeding. Thats what is so infuriating. To watch the Germans throw it all away for 35 hr workweeks and government handouts. Germans are not acting like their decendants here in the states where an ethnic German is still driven by the Saxon work ethic and attends Mass on Sundays. Marx is death to us.

[dvwjr]

"Today many Germans believe into a caricature that has nothing to do with the realities. They see America somehow as a christian theocracy with a Walt-Disney-justice that raids other countries because of Halliburton."

Unfortunately, after the close of the Cold War, Germany has gained an caricature problem in America. It's probably a combination of the most gutteral, un-melodious sounding language on the planet combined with what we might delicately call - the ol' "jackboot image" problem... It just reinforces what Americans get in both movies and the History Channel. They still see Germany somehow as a socialist kleptocracy with Europeon-justice that actually invaded fourteen other countries because of I.G. Farben and that whole 'Lebensraum' thing under the leadership of former chancellor Hitler.

The US just has this 'thing' about tyrannical dicators who wear mustashes, be they German or Arab...

As long as people who wore those jackboots uninvited into numerous other counties are still alive, the German 'image problem' will remain. Public relations, BMWs and VW 'Farfegnugen' not withstanding, it will take a few more generations for a new German image to take hold in the 'land of the the free' and the home of the empire killers...

It would be helpful if both sides are mature enough to accept that there are differences in values and views, but if Europeans continue, like their friends the Arabs - to view the United States as the 'great Satan' of today, you will find that Americans pose the same response to both mortified groups:

"Are you one of the countries whose ass we saved? Or are you one of the countries whose ass we kicked?"

I am sure they will find our common ground...

dvwjr

[driftless]

"Germans believe in a caricature"

During the nineties I was engaged to a woman who had a sister who married a German doctor (follow me so far?). My ex-fiancee's sister was planning a trip to Wisconsin with her children to visit my fiancee, her sister. She was going to rent a car to drive from Milwaukee to La Crosse, a distance of about two hundred miles. But her German husband urged her to take the bus because the crime rate was so high in the states, there was an excellent chance her car would be carjacked on the way to La Crosse. Right on the I-90 interstate.

My ex-fiancee told me this, and it was all I could do to keep from laughing hysterically. I then wondered what other weird things do Germans believe goes on in the States. Needless to say my fiancees sister and childred were not attacked en route to La Crosse on that trip or many other subsequent trips to La Crosse and other destinations in the U.S.

[Patriot from Philly]

The United States needs to separate the good European people from their socialist, sneering elites. We need to get Fox News there, some good conservative blogs. Those poor Europeans are so brainwashed. Their elites control the media, the schools, the courts.

I read an article in Der Spiegle that did compared the kidnapping of the terrorist loving German woman with the terrorist in Milan. Subtle, hey?

[SkyPilot]

Since we left Frankfurt, how many US bases are left in Germany?

Many bases have been closed, the only air bases left in Germany are Ramstein and Spanghalem.

Rhein Main closed, as did Zweibrucken, Hahn, Sembach (no flying operations anymore), Bitburg, and many others.

Many German Army bases and kasernes have also been closed.

[Atlantic Bridge]

Imagine - I am self employed, I run a construction business, I DON'T WANT ANYONE'S HELP, and certainly not the government's. I work between 9 - 12 hours a day (although I have the freedom to write on FR sometimes), I give work to other people and I certainly do not embrace socialism. I even attend the worship on sundays although I have to admit that sometimes I prefer spending the sunday morning with my family.

Prejudices are often completely different to the realities.