Posted on 01/04/2006 4:05:09 PM PST by bigsky
Not to worry, you guys managed to get the usual blatter about you supposedly admire her "brilliant legal mind" (i.e. being able to write ad hominid attacks berating liberals for their ad hominid attacks), while making the same lame joke about how the "forum rules" require someone post a photo of her for everyone to drool over.
It gets really old. Yeah, you guys really love her "mind"
You're funny HillBilly. What's a "blatter"?
Someone please tell Ann and all the rest that it is not the democratic party, no, it the democRAT party. Rush always does the same thing and so does Sean.
In the 20 years preceding the attack of 9/11, the FISA court did not modify -- much less reject -- one single warrant request. But starting in 2001, the judges "modified 179 of the 5,645 requests for court-ordered surveillance by the Bush administration." In the years 2003 and 2004, the court issued 173 "substantive modifications" to warrant requests and rejected or "deferred" six warrant requests outright.
The history of applications modified has an interesting pattern that hasn't been explained, but I suspect is related to the "In re: Sealed Case" ruling by the FISA review court, and not to 9/11/2001 as the article leads the reader.
FISA Court reports pursuant to 50 USC 1807
Year Applied Granted Denied Modified
1997 749 748 1* 0
1998 796 796 0 0
1999 886 880 0 0
2000 1,005 1,012 0 2
2001 932 934 0 2
2002 1,228 1,228 0 2
2003 1,727 1,724 4 79
2004 1,758 1,754 0 94
* 1997: In one case, although satisfied as to the probable cause to believe the target to be an agent of a foreign power, the court declined to approve the application as plead for other reasons, and gave the government leave to amend the application. The government has filed a motion to withdraw that case as it has become moot.
The reports give little hint relating to the nature of the modifications, but obviously (based on the number of rejections), whatever modifications the Court demanded were taken by the investigator/requester.
As for why to avoid going to the FISA court for warrants, I can think of a few reasons. The investigators may find that the modification requests are unreasonable; the time delay to obtain a warrant, especially a "negotiated/modified" one, does not admit timely investigation; the manpower of the investigatory arm is insufficient to pursue both, correct paperwork and investigations; the number of targets is increased radically beyond the 1,700 or so reflected in the reports, and the investigator does not want to tip off the terrorists (or the public) by showing a radical increase in the numbers reported to Congress.
FISA Court reports pursuant to 50 USC 1807
Year Applied Granted Denied Modified
1979 199 207 0 0
1980 319 322 0 1*
1981 431 433 0 0
1982 473 475 0 0
1983 549 549 0 0
1984 635 635 0 0
1985 587 587 0 0
1986 573 573 0 0
1987 512 512 0 0
1988 534 534 0 0
1989 546 546 0 0
1990 595 595 0 0
1991 593 593 0 0
1992 484 484 0 0
1993 509 509 0 0
1994 576 576 0 0
1995 697 697 0 0
1996 839 839 0 0
1997 749 748 1* 0
1998 796 796 0 0
1999 886 880 0 0
2000 1,005 1,012 0 1
2001 932 934 0 2
2002 1,228 1,228 0 2
2003 1,727 1,724 4* 79
2004 1,758 1,754 0 94
* 1980: No orders were entered which modified or denied the requested authority, except one case in which the Court modified an order and authorized an activity for which court authority had not been requested.http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/1980rept.html
* 1997: In one case, although satisfied as to the probable cause to believe the target to be an agent of a foreign power, the court declined to approve the application as plead for other reasons, and gave the government leave to amend the application. The government has filed a motion to withdraw that case as it has become moot.
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/1997rept.html
* 2003: Of the four applications thatteh Court denied, two merit additional discussion:
(1) In one case, the Court issued supplemental orders with respect to its denial, and the Government filed with the Court a motion for reconsideration of its rulings. The Court subsequently vacated its earlier orders and granted in part and denied in part the Government's motion for reconsideration. The Government has not yet appealed that ruling. In 2004, the Court approved a revised application regarding this target that incorporated modifications consistent with the Court's prior order with respect to the motion for reconsideration.(2) In another case, the Court initially denied the application without prejudice. The Government presented amended orders to the Court later the same day, which the Court approved. Because the court eventually approved this application, it is in the 1724 total referenced above.
bttt
Thats extremely annoying to me also, rambo. There really isn't much that is "democratic" about that party. They just do what Teddy, Howie and Slick Willie tell them to.
bttt
Surely it isn't news that "democratic" and "Democratic" are altogether different concepts.
bttt
Ann, You don't have a problem with W lack of protection along our borders? Eat two double cheese burgers daily and get back to me in a year or so.
how about her eating two In & Out burgers, or yummy Carls Jr. burgers!! eh
We, here in Texas, do not have In & Out, or Carls Jr., and I wish we did. We have Whataburger which is great!
I wish Ann or some other high profile conservative writer would do a detailed story about what it really takes to get a FISA warrant. A guy who is now retired, used to do it and was on Rush's show last week and it blew my mind when he explained how difficult and time consuming the entire process is. Seventy-two hours, my @ss! That's just more false democrat talking points when it comes to the reality.
Republicans are 'realists'. Democrats live in the alternate reality of a realist. To them everything that happens or they can cause to happen is a stepping stone to power, no matter where that stone is or what the possible consequences are. They never see the danger. Carter played the game, Clinton played the game. It is a game that can only end in disaster for the USA and it's citizens. I almost think that the Democrats are hoping for another 9/11, so long as none of their loved ones are hurt. What a political coo that would be or so they think.
The statutory language gives a pretty good clue. I heard the piece that the caller to Limbaugh gave, and took with a bit of a jaundiced eye. First, times and perspectives change - while the wheels of justice tend to turn slow and fine, they may have become more relaxed and swift in light of the stakes of terrorism. Second, the interpretation of the law was changed radically by the FISA review Court in 2002. Third, investigators tend to perceive any type of requirement for justification to be an unnecessary burden - it's perfectly natural for them to have that point of view.
But, at the same time, we just don't know if the 72 hour "get a warrant" requirement fits the kind of surveillance that is being undertaken. I do agree in principle, the more onerous the paperwork, the less of the activity.
And, since we don't know, the DEM talking point is, as you point out, false. President Bush has noted that the FISA structure is fine for longer term surveillance. That tidbit gives a little insight into a possible "short duration" element of some of the surveillance. That is, some surveillance may not even last as long as 72 hours.
From listening to the caller, it was my impression that he knew that the "process" for getting a warrant is still riddled with red tape. I'd like to know how much of that red tape has been removed in order to get the actual request moved through the bureaucracy. The guy's main complaint was that he was expected to "make the entire case" BEFORE a request could be moved through the process. He was frustrated that linking suspicions based on intelligence wasn't good enough.
From the article: After all the ballyhoo about how it was duck soup to get a warrant from FISA, I thought it was pretty big news when it later turned out that the FISA court had been denying warrant requests from the Bush administration like never before.
This is what bothers me and perfectly explains why Bush decided to sidestep a process that has obviously become politicized by a secret court.
Understood. The 4th amendment is a substantial barrier to unfettered investigation. He doesn't have to make the case, but he does have to convince a judge of soemthing that resembles probable cause.
He was frustrated that linking suspicions based on intelligence wasn't good enough.
Also understood. But I think it's NECESSARY to have the specific fact pattern that the "linking suspicions based on intelligence" phrase actually represents, before one can engage in reasoned arguments about whether or not his objection is reasonable.
My jaundiced eye is pretty evenly cast - I think the DEMs are lying, and I also think the administration is (probably reasonably, but I don't know) hiding the scope of surveillance.
From the article: After all the ballyhoo about how it was duck soup to get a warrant from FISA, I thought it was pretty big news when it later turned out that the FISA court had been denying warrant requests from the Bush administration like never before.
The reports indicate a small number of denials - unless one is to take a modification as a denial.
This is what bothers me and perfectly explains why Bush decided to sidestep a process that has obviously become politicized by a secret court.
I noted above (previous post, days ago) that red tape and manpower necessary to feed it is a possible justification for sidestepping.
Your assertion that the FISA Court has politicized the process is a common allegation. I don't share it because there is no evidence to support it. The Court may be mired in bureacracy, or it may be looking out to uphold the Constitution as it pertains to the 4th amendment, as the court sees it. I noticed in one case that the FISA Court expanded the scope of surveillance beyond what the investigator requested, which makes me think they aren't as one-sided as the investigators would hold.
One more thought, based on my reading of source materials. THe "red tape" you talk of may be outside of the FISA Court. It may be that the administration hamstrung itself, as Clinton's did with the Gorelick Wall. To the investigator, red tape is red tape - and nobody blames their own guys for putting it in place.
And I too would like to know how much of that red tape is in place, where it is (that is, which department erected it), and the reasoning behind it.
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