Posted on 01/02/2006 4:19:44 AM PST by ventana
Since when are they grossly overpaid if they negotiated a contract agreed to by the employer. (tapping foot and waiting for answer rather than dodge..)
You and I may both think Union workers are overpaid; but, they used the rules of the market and came to agreement in a proper setting. And don't tell me you're invoking ethics.. lol
The corporate idea is to remove accountability from the person owning incorporation. It is a legal manuever to deflect responsibility. Most of the worst fears of the founders along the lines of mega-corporations/compaies have been realized.
Corporations should not exist and are a longterm danger to the Nation's economic health and it's security. They should be outlawed.
Sorry; but, what we had in place before free trade built this nation into an economic power house. Despite your intentions to fudge things in order to make an intelligent "sounding" argument, you cannot overcome that fact.
It is over the top for you when it points in the direction of your party. If you were to apply that term to the dims, it would just be good fun. All "relative" huh. Spare us the hypocrisy.
Can you make a cohesive argument for once. Whether businesses
improve in efficiency locally or not has zero to do with whether a "global shift" has taken place. The only shift taking place is the shift in some diapers as people call the non-baby contents good for us. The real shift that has taken place is business and Politicians trying to TELL us how it is gonna be. Last I looked, we out here are the boss in this nation. And the market sets the standards, not business which is but one half of it. Politicians and business schemeing together to destroy the standing of the worker in the market in order to "shift" favor to business artificially is criminal IMHO. If you want to pretend some imaginary shift took place and try to bs America with that nonsense, you better think again.
Now if the treason lobby could present such a coherent direct response, one might trust to get somewhere with them. I think the only way we'll get anywhere with them is to start spraying for them or get a bigger club for the size of whackamole game it is.
I think that does accurately describe the situation. But, if you want to carry this on, I would prefer it be done in private. This is not about me. I'm here because I believe what happened to me is wrong. I believed it was wrong before it happened to me. And I believe it should never happen to another American. I'm here to put an end to the betrayal of America by whatever means I can with my limited resources. If that means debate upto and including running for office, so be it. If that means other plausible means, so be it. I don't know all the options; but, this was bigger than me when it got to me and will remain so. I am not the focus nor do I want to be. I'm trying to put my money where my mouth is.. which is more than I can say for the treason lobby.
I think the concept you're avoiding here is "evasiveness."
As in, "I am out of ammo. I need to get out of here quickly."
You can't explain it because there is nothing to explain; I've got you covered no matter how you twist and turn. [Some people can't admit this when it happens to them, and so they habitually respond with non sequiturs. Whatever, it's OK with me (smile).]
We're on the 628th post in this string, I don't think getting out of here quickly is my objective. I simply have identified you as a person with statist tendencies who looks for his government to protect him from truly fair and, especially, open competition. I am not afraid of such competition. I am worthy of freedom. I accept the risks. I don't think I am talking to someone like that and, frankly, I try to limit my contact with such people.
Rail away if you like but it's not my job to educate you.
Trying to have a discussion with you is a waste of time.
You and I may both think Union workers are overpaid; but, they used the rules of the market and came to agreement in a proper setting. And don't tell me you're invoking ethics.. lol
I think there are two issues getting intermixed here. No one besmirches the union workers (or ANY workers) getting as much as they possibly can for their services.
The issue of more import may be "is the compensation union (or ANY workers) workers receive for their work reasonable for the type of work they do?" Of course the word reasonable is subjective.
I don't believe jobs being outsourced out of the US is a primary reason why sales of GM, Ford, etc vehicles have been declining over the years. I believe initial quality, fuel economy, vehicle cost, overall maintenance costs, etc are some of the primary factors that consumers use in making car purchase decisions. And based on those factors, I believe GM products have been suffering.
Certain industries related specifically to national defense should never be taken off-shore. I guess the discussion centers around "what are those industries"?
The private-sector unions are just a small part of the outsourcing issue. If we want to talk about unions, we need to take a look at public sector unions, which in the example of states e.g. NY), have a provision in the State Consitution that earned pension benefits must be provided, and cannot be done away with.
The Unions and management, and yes taxpayers have created an unsustainable liability in the way of health care, etc that drives up the cost of products, especially in the areas of cars, etc. But as noted on this thread, it takes two to tango.
"Since when are they grossly overpaid if they negotiated a contract agreed to by the employer. (tapping foot and waiting for answer rather than dodge..)"
When the contracted pay and benefits destroy the profit margin in the product, the employees are grossly overpaid as of that moment.
And here I thought the pro-tariff/higher tax lobby was an exclusive membership open only to certified (or certifiable) protectionists. You learn something new every day. I can't wait to see if he finds anyone who qualifies.
In the US or in Poland?
But do you comprehend the possibility that some care not only about their own individual interest? This is the secret of the freetraders - for them their country can go to hell so long as they make a few dollars in profit.
Read my tagline.
In USA. Poland as other European countries already has it.
The only thing that keeps Republicans in power is that Democrats are dominated by the barking moonbats.
Your tagline is incorrect.
The series missed the fundamental truth that trade has been a key ingredient in the acceleration of worker productivity and rising living standards in the United States in the last decade. During much of the 1990s, when imports and trade deficits were both rising rapidly, so too were domestic employment, manufacturing output, and real wages. Between 1994 and 2000, civilian employment in the U.S. economy rose by a net 12 million and the unemployment rate fell from 6 percent to 4 percent. During that same period, U.S. manufacturing output rose by 40 percent while the volume of imported manufactured goods doubled during that same period. Meanwhile, real compensation rose for American families up and down the income scale.
MoneyLine Series Misses the Story on Trade and Jobs
While Mr. Uchitelle first began whining about manufacturing being "downsized," it actually grew by 5.3 percent a year from 1992 through 2000. Manufacturing then fell 4.1 percent in 2001 (the bottom of his "trend") but rose at a 6.1 percent pace during the first three quarters of last year. What has been unusual about U.S. manufacturing was not the inevitable recession in 2001 but the unusually long and strong expansion for the preceding eight years. About half of the unusually strong gains came from the manufacture of high-tech equipment, which is a lot more valuable than T-shirts.
The cyclical ups and downs of manufacturing are international, by the way, not national. Manufacturing started falling in August 2000 in Japan and Korea, followed by the United States a month later. When manufacturing falls, so do imports.
Increases in productivity from improved machinery and skills are the reason manufacturing employment falls most of the time, as it does in farming, even when output is growing briskly. From 1990 to 2000, manufacturing employment fell by 0.4 percent a year in the U.S., by 1.8 percent a year in Japan and by 2.5 percent a year in Germany.
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Postal Square Building 2 Massachusetts Ave., NE Washington, DC 20212-0001 |
Phone: (202) 691-5200 |
I guess the huge increase in American manufacturing output during the 1990s was caused by the huge increase in manufacturing workers? Hmmmm...we actually had fewer workers making more stuff? Maybe we closed our Communist-owned worthless "enterprises" while more efficient enterprises were created? I hope you're not feeling too dizzy from this "spin".
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