[Havoc]

Since when are they grossly overpaid if they negotiated a contract agreed to by the employer. (tapping foot and waiting for answer rather than dodge..)

You and I may both think Union workers are overpaid; but, they used the rules of the market and came to agreement in a proper setting. And don't tell me you're invoking ethics.. lol

[Fury]

Since when are they grossly overpaid if they negotiated a contract agreed to by the employer. (tapping foot and waiting for answer rather than dodge..)

You and I may both think Union workers are overpaid; but, they used the rules of the market and came to agreement in a proper setting. And don't tell me you're invoking ethics.. lol

I think there are two issues getting intermixed here. No one besmirches the union workers (or ANY workers) getting as much as they possibly can for their services.

The issue of more import may be "is the compensation union (or ANY workers) workers receive for their work reasonable for the type of work they do?" Of course the word reasonable is subjective.

I don't believe jobs being outsourced out of the US is a primary reason why sales of GM, Ford, etc vehicles have been declining over the years. I believe initial quality, fuel economy, vehicle cost, overall maintenance costs, etc are some of the primary factors that consumers use in making car purchase decisions. And based on those factors, I believe GM products have been suffering.

Certain industries related specifically to national defense should never be taken off-shore. I guess the discussion centers around "what are those industries"?

The private-sector unions are just a small part of the outsourcing issue. If we want to talk about unions, we need to take a look at public sector unions, which in the example of states e.g. NY), have a provision in the State Consitution that earned pension benefits must be provided, and cannot be done away with.

The Unions and management, and yes taxpayers have created an unsustainable liability in the way of health care, etc that drives up the cost of products, especially in the areas of cars, etc. But as noted on this thread, it takes two to tango.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

"Since when are they grossly overpaid if they negotiated a contract agreed to by the employer. (tapping foot and waiting for answer rather than dodge..)"

When the contracted pay and benefits destroy the profit margin in the product, the employees are grossly overpaid as of that moment.

[Andrewksu]

Your a little slow on the uptake, I am saying that they are grossly overpaid in the scale of wages within the US. They are getting paid more than they would be worth on the open market. Money doesn't grow on trees, even for large corporations. The Unions have many companies and industries by the short and curlies, and jack wages up well beyond normal market value. Since the US is no longer, and never will be again, a closed market, our companies cannot raise prices to cover these expenses.

You cannot argue that Unions don't overstep their bounds on many accounts. Unions are notorious for cutthroat tactics, remember the NY transit strike just weeks ago?? Rest my case!