Posted on 01/02/2006 4:19:44 AM PST by ventana
My, you seem as monomaniacal about unions as Jack Welch. And what precisely do you know about manufacturing skill?
Are all the Japanese (Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Honda),German (BMW, Mercedes, --Chrysler is now under Daimler-Chrysler ownership) and Korean (Hyundai, and KIA) American assembly plants unionized? Does this automatically make them 'better' than their U.S.-firm counterparts? Some objective numbers, please.
If not, then you have some 'splainen to do.
We have a word here: C A P I T A L I S M.
Use tariffs to balance the field as they are meant to and it's amazing how dumb and how big a waste of time it suddenly is to hire Chinese coders.
Translation: You can't make yourself a worthwhile value proposition.
And, no, I'm not the equivelant of an IT bolt tightener. Nor are coders. Coding takes substantial thought to do properly else you get the shlock that Microsoft puts out and thinks the best since peanut butter.
I have been coding for over 30 years. It is bolt-tightening. I enjoy it and still do it when I get a chance, but it is far and away the easiest thing in the world.
...Over what? Money. ...
Oh noo!!!! They want to make money!! Those scoundrels! Don't they know that the point is to keep people employed?? Havoc decides what is "best" NOT the marketpkace! What a bunch of schloes!
Personally, you may be in high demand. That doesn't protect your position. The moment someone in China comes available, you will be expendable no matter how valuable you think your position is.
How many people in China have 30 years in development, mainframes, Operating Systems Installation and Management, Computer Operations and Computer Operations Management, Database Administration, Large Project management, Network Administration, detailed knowledge of Financials, Human Resources, Payroll, CRM, can run a large project and can speak perfect English? How many people in the USA?
If for some reason they don't want me to be Manager, I just fall back to being an Oracle DBA or DB2 DBA (or Manager thereof). Or Ops Management. Or Network Administration.
If you think little guys are bolt turners and you aren't, you've got some learning to do. My job required problem solving skills and technical knowledge that not everyone has. I've talked to college grads who don't understand how windows really works but have it degrees.
Buahahahahaa!! Windows Support? You do Windows Support? No wonder you are so bitter. How in the world is Windows support and integral part of an entire strategic or tactical. Almost everyone outsources that anyway (not always offshore -- my company outsources to a USA company that puts people in our offices). I don't know of anyone that is calling for Windows people in a vacuum. Now if you knew applications such as SCM or ERP or Windows as part of an OS theory knowledge base, that might be saleable. But if you posess fewer than 5 technical skills than that is your problem.
You decide you want to be an auto mechanic, don't be upset when they stop using carbeurators.
No, he got in my getting the most votes. Sorry.
If there hadn't been a third option, he'd have never gotten there.
And if the queen had balls, she'd be king. There are at least 3 options EVERY year. If there hadn't been a 3rd option in 00, Gore would have won. So what?
Clinton didn't keep the sheep fat and happy, he kept them pretty perpetually po'd and disgusted. My memory ain't that short.
Your memory may not be short, but it's wrong. How about some DATA? Slickster had a higher rating at the end of his term then RR.
End-of Presidency Job Approval Ratings
ABC News Data
Bill Clinton (2001) 65%
Ronald Reagan (1989) 64
Dwight Eisenhower (1961) 59
John F. Kennedy (1963) 63
George Bush (1993) 56
Gerald Ford (1977) 53
Lyndon Johnson (1969) 49
Jimmy Carter (1981) 34
Richard Nixon (1974) 24
source: http://uspolitics.about.com/od/politicalcommentary/a/historical_prez.htm
That's what really cost him. If he'd stayed in, who knows? (Although his kookiness, which basically made him unfit, probably was bound to come out.)
Please don't misunderstand me - I'm no Democrat!! I'm just using the terms in the same way the tax code and Social Security Administration do.
The point is that when one has an investment in a productive asset, whether it be a stock portfolio or a manufacturing facility, that asset is what creates the wealth. Couldn't we say that the ongoing use of your friend's work in the product of the film was what created his stream of earnings?
Similarly, when the world was in upheaval from 1939 - 1945, everybody looked to the US and its productive capacity to be the the "arsenal of democracy". If we abandon "production" in favor of "services", we cannot fulfill this role and, with some limited exceptions like the one you pointed out, the wealth dries up.
"I am very disappointed in the lack of imagination and vision of union leadership."
I agree with you there. If the unions would guarantee the productivity of union members, and hence, their value to the business, they'd be an asset instead of a liability. That they aren't doing this this speaks to the last part of your post, I'm afraid
The concept of giving unions/members "ownership" in a company was a collossal failure with United Airlines. That's not to say there isn't a successful model for this somewhere.
ping
That is incorrect. I have a "Made in Ohio" Honda that has a higher US part content (80%)than the Ford I owned previously. I also worked (long ago) for a US steel company that produced steel body panels for Toyota, Mitsuibishi and Honda. All the shipments were to the US plants of those companies.
I apologise. The comment about social diseases was for the other fellow I was replying to in the same message. It in no way applies to you or your arguments.
I think of treason as taking up arms and attacking my country. I'm obviously not doing that. Treason could also be spying for another country, or giving away secrets to one. I'm not doing that, either.
If treason is buying imported products, how about my Apple PowerBook G4? I just got it and it cost over $2,000. It was designed by Apple in California, but made in China. So I've given money to the evil Communists. I didn't particularly intend to do this, but I don't think there's a laptop maker on the planet that isn't in China now.
Intel microprocessors are made in Singapore. Memory chips are made in Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea. Dell laptops are made in China, too, probably in the same plant as my new PowerBook.
So it looks like you should put everyone in the computer manufacturing business in the US straight in the electric chair, because they sure didn't hire many American assembly line workers.
Treason, bloody treason! Off to the electric chair with them all!
Yes?
And if not, why should I not be free to do the same thing they're doing?
D
"No, we need merely balance the playing field against those who have artificially lower labor costs."
merely? That's a big word in this context! We export quite a lot in goods and services. You need to be prepared to sacrifice export services and industries - that are forged in a global competitive environment - for non-competitive domestic industries - that will be ever more non-competitive with protectionism.
I'm not for that.
You also have static economic reasoning. I submit that if we did what you suggest - a 25% tariff on everything imported, that you'd end up with fewer manufacturing jobs in the US than we have without them.
If it's a matter of government interest, maybe so. I certainly wouldn't be in Iraq if it weren't for the fact that Saddam was after our blood, in one way or the other.
But when it comes to using my own private money, which can't go very far at all in the US, I just don't see how supporting 10 Filipinos isn't better than supporting a single American.
The extreme reactions to this that I'm seeing are surprising to say the least. The noose? Treason? Electrocution?
In your opinion, would hearing something like that make me want to hire more American workers, or head to some other country, which hopefully doesn't have workers inclined to bring nooses, electrocuation or other unpleasant methods to the workplace?
D
Right, but the Corporations are based on law, and that is 80% of the economy, Gummint being the remainder. No further amendment of the Constitution is necessary: they got all they needed from the Fourteenth Amendment and the rest is done in law.
You have some interesting points, well made.
BS, what is the unemployment rate (about 5%)?
No and yes.
Notice the level of debate that you initiated.
Havoc the dunce.
No, I was just highlighting the fact that many sleep in the beds that they make, and/or are unwilling to adapt to changes.
I am all for paying for your own way, and I have student loans to prove it.
My career path looks limited, so I have spent the last 2+ years developing my own business, which should provide for me financially as well as intellectually. If you don't like what your doing, change it!
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