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Do you honestly believe that requiring an employee to be in this country legally in order to be elligible to work is an idiotic hurdle?

We already require them to provide papers.

Furthermore, do you honestly believe that employers should not be held to account(thru penalty) for actions they take when they hire Illegal workers?

if you can prove they KNOWINGLY do so, I have no problem. The question is, who bears that burden? The fact that we have had a stupid, idiotic and hypocritical immigration system for some years now does not make it suddenly incumbent on small businesses to take on the burden of immigration police.

We already pay your damn health insurance, your disability, your life insurance, your retirement, half your Social Security, your medicare, and withold your income taxes, making us the bagmen for the IRS. I pay over 4,000 a year just for an accountant to track the stuff I take out for the employees I have, and I am a small, small company. I had to file through (so far) 15 workers to find 4 who were worth a shit, and one of them is a naturalized citizen from El Salvador. Most of the workers were stupid, lazy, entitled, privileged, and worthless, and that is when they showed up sober and on time. I am really sick of the crap I hear from freepers claiming that there are lots and lots of good, qualified hard working Americans who would happily do the jobs of illegals. It is simply a lie.

I just got back from visiting my brother in law, who owns a small business installing granite counter tops. 7 employees, two of whom are hispanic. They are "the only ones who will work." I asked "are they legal?" He said "one of them is a US citizen...., his brother has 'papers' but I am not going to go through some crap trying to chase down whether or not the stuff is legit." He pays all the guys the same wages (no splits, the Mexicans are paid the same as the whites and blacks). The IRS and the social security get the same witholding from these guys and THEY ARE THE ONES TASKED IWTH TRACKING THESE NUMBERS.... they say nothing. The non-citizen Mexican (probably illegal) has never filed taxes and probably has no plans to do so. Do you think the fed gripes or contacts anyone? HELL no!! It is free money and they know it. Before the fed starts coming down on small businesses for not doing their work, let's see if they can start by refusing.... lets do the math here, low estimate is 10 million illegals, 5 million of whom work. Say 2 million work in non-contract jobs (another low estimate), where taxes and all are witheld. Lets say every one of them is at 6 dollars an hour, (another low estimate) despite the fact that they are paid prevailing wages and 6 an hour is below wage scale just about everywhere in the country (my brother in law pays 14 an hour). Take 15.5 per cent of that for social security, 5% for income tax, .5% for medicare, and that adds to .155+.05+.005 x(2,000,000 x 6 x 40 x 52) = 5 billion, 241 million, six hundred thousand dollars deposited gratis in the US Treasury every year. That assumes only 2 million illegals on hourly wages, only 6 dollars an hour paid wages. Realistic totals are probably at least double that.

If the fed were serious about illegal immigration, the first thing they would have to do is kiss that money goodbye.

If you want to get serious about illegals, start with the part of the goverment which already has all the record keeping resources in place, not lay some new burden on businessowners.

I am really sick of the crap I hear from freepers claiming that there are lots and lots of good, qualified hard working Americans who would happily do the jobs of illegals.

If you can't run your business without hiring illegals, then shut it down. Your services are no longer required.

The law says you can't hire illegal aliens. It is your responsibility to use your best judgment to ensure the people you hire are in the country legally. If you can't do that, then a court will decide your fate. A judge or a jury will hear the evidence and they will decide if you should have known if the people you hired were illegal.

If they decide against you, then you may lose your business or go to jail.

Yes we require them to provide LEGIT papers. The employer has to play their part in confirming them as valid and should have the tools to do so.

Employers DO knowiling hire Illegals. The fact the speak no English is a pretty good tip don't you think? Responsibility for the buck is simply being passed around.

The government cannot micromanange each and every business. Therefor they do bear that very burden. Unless of course you want to see the government form a new division that will go from business to business doing the checks????

You can say it is alie that people want to work if you want to. You have every right to offer whatever wage you want to for any given job, but you make mistake when you claim that get to cry about it and then go hire Illegals. If you cry about that then you indeed care nothing about a free market where employers get to ick their own wages and employees get to pick their own wages that they will commit labor for. This has to work both ways, you do not get to cut and run in the middle changing the rules so they suit you and seek out illegal workers just because noone wants to work for the wage you offer.

A social security was never meant to be a way to track you sir. It was only meant as a means of tracking income tax. This number is used improperly today in a way that it was not designed to be used. I take it from this area of your post that you would support a national ID standard that would solve alot of these issues? Would I be correct in that assumption? Somehow I fell you will respond otherwise.

I will agree that the govenrment up to thispoint has been far less than serious about dealing with this issue. I will however offer to you that simply pointing the finger at them and claiming it is all their responsibility is nothing more than shirking your own part in this issue that clearly has to be a team effort to solve. Absolving businesses from their part is no better than the government absolving themselves from their part.
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Why is it so unreasonable to ask an employer to verify the documents they attain from a person that doesn't even speak English?

"We already pay your damn health insurance, your disability, your life insurance, your retirement, half your Social Security, your medicare, and withold your income taxes, making us the bagmen for the IRS. I pay over 4,000 a year just for an accountant to track the stuff I take out for the employees I have, and I am a small, small company. I had to file through (so far) 15 workers to find 4 who were worth a shit, and one of them is a naturalized citizen from El Salvador. Most of the workers were stupid, lazy, entitled, privileged, and worthless, and that is when they showed up sober and on time. I am really sick of the crap I hear from freepers claiming that there are lots and lots of good, qualified hard working Americans who would happily do the jobs of illegals. It is simply a lie."

"I had to file through (so far) 15 workers to find 4 who were worth a shit."

Ugh After reading that Im not surprised you have a hard time finding and keeping good employees. People that hate and look down on the people that work for them often do. Thats the free market at work.

If you want to get serious about illegals, start with the part of the goverment which already has all the record keeping resources in place, not lay some new burden on businessowners.

Finally you make some sense, at least on the first part.

The federal and state government buearacrats know exactly who is paying the "free" money into the system. They know there are lots of fake id numbers and they gladly take the money anyway. Don't rock the boat, it's gravy train time.

As for business owners, it is still a crime to employee these people knowingly. Therefore many turn a blind eye to make a buck. What would you do if the IRS called you up and told you that one of your employees is using fake id papers? That is what they should at least be doing. Ask your brohter in law too.

Tancredo should be calling for investigations of the IRS and Social Security Administration for corruption and money laundering.

"5 billion, 241 million, six hundred thousand dollars deposited gratis in the US Treasury every year."

Just for sake of discussion let's say the U.S. Taxpayers spend $7,000 per child of an illegal alien per year for education. I know it's close to double that in some major metropolitan areas, but say on average it's $7,000 per year.

Then that $5 billion and change of yours only pays to educate 700,000 to 800,000 kids, CL. How many illegal alien kids do you think are in the United States, CL?

Who pays for their health-care? Who paid the bill to deliver these babies in the first place, CL?

Who pays for their Welfare, Food stamps, shelter, clothing, etc.?

I've seen studies that suggest illegal immigrants are a $70 to $400 billion dollar a year NET loss to the U.S. Taxpayers.

Enforce the laws. They will deport themselves.