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To: MillerCreek
Saint Peter received the directive and empowerment of Jesus Christ and founded, built, established that church. It's the Catholic church, the church founded by Saint Peter.

And of course you know a great many people don't believe that...We believe Jesus was referring to himself when He said 'and upon this rock I will build my church'...

Besides, why would God build a church based on Peter and what he taught??? Peter doubted Jesus and later lied about knowing him to save his own skin...

And, the mystery of the Gentile church was given to Paul, not Peter...Peter was later rebuked by Paul...Of course we all know this stuff so I'm not telling anyone anything new...

It was a couple of centuries later that the Catholic Church came into existance...There is no reference in the Bible to a Catholic Church, or any Church...Just the church...

The people that were under Paul's ministry were 'saved', born again Christians who underwent spiritual death, burial and ressurection...

There were no Catholics, or Protestants...They were Christians, at least under Paul's ministry and teaching...

The Protestant movement was not created nor built by Saint Peter.

That's a true statement...As I just said, Paul was the minister of the Gentiles...The Protestants are a result of Paul's teaching...

140 posted on 12/29/2005 4:50:47 AM PST by Iscool (Start your own revolution by voting for the candidates the media (and gov't) tells you cannot win.)
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To: Iscool
Well, go read the words by the Word, Jesus Christ, again. Only take care what "interpretation" as in Bible edition you mind because many of the more contemporary interpretations have literally changed the very meaning of some of the Word.

Go compare the words of Jesus Christ in that statement starting with the King James and work forward, all available editions, and perceive the subtleties of interpretations.

It is very important not to "interpret" the Word of God to such an extent that it becomes 'easier to read' but loses the essence of what is intended.

Matthew 16:18 New International Version, for starters...

THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD:

18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, [a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades [b] will not overcome it [c]."

a. Peter means rock.

b. Or hell

c. Or not prove stronger than it

I compared that to other Bible editions and the substance continues to define as that Jesus Christ declares Peter to be his rock and upon that rock (upon Peter, the rock) Jesus Christ will build his church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I've never heard ANYone with temperate mind and intellect interpret that any differently. 18 "And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven."

If Christ is not speaking TO AND ABOUT Peter, to whom is He speaking? And about whom or what? He says, "YOU ARE PETER...THE ROCK...AND UPON THE ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH..."

141 posted on 12/29/2005 6:03:34 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Iscool

There was also no CHURCH before Christ defined it.

And, we have what Jesus Christ said about that and how. His church was not and could not be "built" until His resurrection and thus, prior to the birth of Jesus Christ and his death and resurrection, thank God, HIS CHURCH BEGAN.

Of course there were no "denominations" prior to the church itself, but the church itself was and is that built upon Saint Peter.

Also, the various "denominations" to which you refer are recent-times spinoffs as to Protestant diversions and rejections of the Catholic Church. Which many regard as heresay, based upon the Word itself.

The Church of England, for instance, later called "The Episcopal Church," was created by King Henry inorder to rule or launch "his own" church, the church of King Henry, so to speak, given that to King Henry, he WAS England, and thus, his church, the Church of England, to remove any involvement by the Catholic Church in the rule of England (and the life of the King, ruler! so he said).

King Henry ALSO later in life rued his decision and begged God to forgive what he'd done. And look at what the Episcopal Church has become today...

There is appeal and seduction in fundamentalism, in renouncing "organized religion," and I understand that, but you should not lose site of your soul's destination.

Man is fallible. Some persons in and among the church become torn by sin and bad choices (leads to sin if not outright sin in most), but it is important not to lose relationship with the church out of determination to do it your way, see things as you 'feel' you 'ought' and 'should' and such. That's often relativism, and more so, often humanism and general spirituality, which leaves one open to all and everything.


142 posted on 12/29/2005 6:12:01 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Iscool

You have written a chop-a-block pieced together quilting of points that seem to suit your own interpretations as to why you should reject the Catholic church. Some do as you do and I have heard these very same 'tossed in the air and this is what came down' type rehash before for the very same reasons.

Will pray for you. I am sorry if I have failed to speak to you in a mutual language here about these important things but as to Saint Paul, he is reknowned as an evangelist, while Saint Peter was the disciple of Jesus Christ and all as Christ Himself pronounced him responsible for and to fulfill (Matthew 16:18).

Saint Paul, also, led a seriously, offensive and objectionable life and while he did repent and was eventually forgiven, it is important not to diminish the SIGNIFICANCE OF THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST as to SAINT PETER and who and what SAINT PETER is. There is, truly, no comparison there with Saint Paul, blessed and remarkable as he is, but that Saint Peter's responsibility and usefulness and purpose to Jesus Christ was profound and unique. And remains so, based upon the Word of the Lord, Himself.

Again, I believe Christ. Had it been different, He would have told us so.


143 posted on 12/29/2005 6:18:58 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Iscool
Perhaps you might want to go read the Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org) as to the word, "catholic"/"Catholic". It will explain to you the term and when and how it came to be.
144 posted on 12/29/2005 6:23:39 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Iscool
HERE:

Catholic

145 posted on 12/29/2005 6:25:15 AM PST by MillerCreek
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To: Iscool
We believe Jesus was referring to himself when He said 'and upon this rock I will build my church'...

Who? You and the 120 people who attend your particular sect? See if you can find that view supported by ANY of the early Church Fathers and get back to me, will you?

I'll be here eating another bowl of YOPIOS.
149 posted on 12/29/2005 6:56:23 AM PST by Antoninus (Hillary smiles every time a Freeper trashes Santorum.)
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To: Iscool
The Protestants are a result of Paul's teaching...

Nope, the Protestants are a result of Luther, Calvin's teachings.
197 posted on 12/29/2005 10:42:12 PM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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