Posted on 12/23/2005 10:07:40 AM PST by TexasGreg
When my son was about 7, he asked me that question, how do we know that Jesus is real if Santa isn't? I asked him, do we go to church every week to worship Santa? Do we pray to Santa every night? Do we go to Santa Sunday school? It was pretty easy for him to see where the truth was, and it was fun for him to know something his little sisters didn't. On the other hand, we really haven't made a big deal about Santa with my youngest son, who is now 4, he's more into Baby Jesus.
As far as I can recall, no.
Honestly, I can't even imagine what I would lie to my kids about.
"Dad, is Santa Claus real?"
"Son, have a seat and I'll tell you all about Santa Claus."
"Dad, are you and mom planning a surprise birthday party for me?"
"That's the kind of topic that, on principle, I never, ever comment on."
"Dad, do you cheat on your taxes?"
"No, I'm scrupulously honest about my taxes. Of course, neither do I just give my money away to the government by not knowing the laws and claiming the deductions that I can legitimately and legally claim."
"Dad, is Bill Clinton a jerk?"
"Yes, I'm afraid he is. At least that's my personal perspective. And so's his wife."
"Dad, is Mr. So-and-so a jerk?"
"My opinion of Mr. So-and-so isn't any of your business."
"Dad, do we go to heaven when we die?"
"Have a seat. I can tell you what I believe, and why I believe it."
Or, more simply, if they're much younger: "Some people believe we just die. Christians believe that we live on forever."
"Dad, how often do you and mom have sex?"
"It's none of your business."
You can believe me or not believe me. I'm straightforward. Your belief or lack of it only reflects on you, not on me.
I knew a high school student who was convinced that Santa Claus was real because she saw him on TV.
I also knew an older woman who, back in the 30s or so, had no idea of human reproductive biology and thought, as a young woman, that babies just kind of spontaneously happened after you got married.
Merry Christmas to you, as well.
"I also knew an older woman who, back in the 30s or so, had no idea of human reproductive biology and thought, as a young woman, that babies just kind of spontaneously happened after you got married."
Do we know the same woman! LOL! She also believed that.
I don't know... did you know my mom?? :-)
(And before Howlin calls me a liar for having a mom who was an adult so long ago, it was my adopted mom, and she was well past her child-bearing years when she adopted me as an infant. ;-))
Actually, that isn't a bad response. But I am skeptical of the ability of a 4-5 year old to keep the secret from their friends. Even at 7, my son is having a terrible time keeping his presents to us secret.
The point was that those who don't do Santa with their kids (mostly) do not because they, in their words, choose not to LIE. Meaning, of course, that we must be terrible people because we LIE to our children.
Your choice is to teach your children to say nothing about Santa, be evasive about Santa or tell the truth straight out and make people mad. I don't view what I teach my children about Santa as a lie. Therefore, I wouldn't view your child who "plays along" with my Santa thing as a liar.
But I guess some people would.
Actually, it reflects reality. I don't know of ANY parent who would claim that they're never even "fudged" to their children.
But I'm glad to know you, sir; the first perfect man to walk the earth since Jesus.
My neighbors son was over today for a while, he's a year younger than my oldest who is eleven. Neither of them believe anymore but he took it upon himself to tell his little sister and my youngest daughter that 'Santa Claus isn't real and all your presents come from your mom and dad.' My oldest was in the bathroom across the hall and she heard him say this at the same time I did. I literally had to physically restrain her from knocking him into next month.
That teacher should have extremely low self-esteem to want to feel more knowledgeable than 5 year olds.
I don't think I judge others in this issue. I understand both views: those who think the Santa thing is a lie, and those, like yourself, who simply see it as a fable, and an allegory, and not at all as a lie.
So it's not like I'm going, "Oh, look at those LIARS! who mislead their kids about Santa Claus!"
BTW my almost-teen just walked through, and I said, "Tell me about Santa Claus."
She smiled, as if wondering, is this a trick question? why are you asking me this? "He's not real," she responded.
"But a lot of other kids believe he's real," I said.
"I know," she responded. "So-and-so [who's about 11 years old] does."
"Do you feel deprived that we didn't lead you to believe Santa Claus is 'real'?"
"No, not really," she responded. "What's the point of believing in something that's not real? Is there really any point? I suppose you could pretend that there's a Santa Claus, just like you can pretend that there are fairies and ogres and elves and things like that. You can believe anything if you want to. And then again, you can just pretend. It's a lot harder to believe than just pretend."
So I asked her how she would feel if we had told her the Santa Claus story as if it were literally true and real, and then she discovered at some point that Santa Claus wasn't really real.
"I don't know," the older one said. "Probably mad."
Anyway, she obviously doesn't think we've mis-parented her. And neither does her sister.
That's because whenever you should happen to meet one, you instantly and automatically brand them as a liar. As you've done with me.
But I'm glad to know you, sir; the first perfect man to walk the earth since Jesus.
I never claimed even anything remotely resembling perfection, I'm not likely to, and my wife wouldn't back me up if I did. But the point wasn't to get into a litany of my faults... (which aren't any of your business, anyway).
I did ask my wife, however:
"Have you ever known me to tell anything even resembling a white lie, or to be less than 100% truthful, to my kids?"
She simply shook her head.
So. I'm sorry to jolt you out of your comfortable self-justification that it's totally fine for you to tell untruths and half-truths to your kids (we're off of Santa here now) because everybody else does so, and in fact it's just downright impossible not to. Whether you acknowledge it or not (and you've already shown that, like many people, you simply reject as a 'lie' whatever you don't want to believe), my experience is different.
My wife also informed me that I was totally wasting my time in this discussion. Unfortunately, I'm afraid she's right.
I don't know whether to laugh...or cry.
No, that's because the only people I have ever HEARD spouting that drivel on on this very forum.
How you parent is up to you, not up to some know it all bent on destroying the magic of Santa Claus and the innocence of childhood.
But I'm interested to know why you consider Santa Claus a "pagan" custom.
He is based on a real person, a real Saint.
And incidentally, I find it interesting that this same idiotic "teacher" violated the "separation of church and state" by referencing Nicholas, who was named a Saint. Hmmmm.......
"People?" As in, plural?
Because less than one hour before you mentioned hearing "people" (plural) "on this very forum" claim that they don't lie to their children, you swore in this same thread:
I don't know of ANY parent who would claim that they're never even "fudged" to their children.
So which is it? You've contradicted yourself. You can plead, "I meant in real life," but by your actual words, you've contradicted yourself.
BTW, I actually remembered you as being (how can I say this nicely? probably can't...) rather, um, arrogant from a conversation we had a couple of years ago; the kind of person who might:
* publicly accuse somebody they don't even know of something,
* set him/herself up (I still don't actually know whether you're male or female) as being the expert in the life of someone they don't know a thing about (contrary to the actual person's knowledge of his or her own life!!), and then
* NEVER be big enough to back down when you're wrong.
Needless to say, you haven't disappointed me.
Sorry to be so tough on you, but I'm not really impressed with such people.
Incidentally, I received a freepmail (which I now have permission to quote anonymously) from another person reading this thread, which said:
"I don't lie to my kids either. It's not easy but it is definitely possible."
So I guess there are "people" in this forum who make that claim.
Of course, it seems to me that a lot of freepers are interested in actual truth (rather than the spin like the left does). You might consider the possibility that FR has a higher-than-average concentration of people who wouldn't be likely to regard lying to their children as unavoidable.
I'm going to try and bow out here. This is an opportunity for you either to show yourself as a bigger person than I think you are, or to try and get in a parting shot. :-)
Maybe. I'm not sure this has to happen, but it might with some kids. It might make a big difference, too, exactly how the parents handle the whole thing -- both in the way they present their version of Santa Claus, and in the way that the respond when the kid comes to them and says, "Johnny said Santa Claus isn't real!"
Again, I'm not hard-nosed on what other people should do, I just know what we do, and that I've always wanted to be very truthful with my kids, and I've always wanted them to feel like their mom and I would always be 100% honest with them (truth is a high value even apart from the kids), and I also want them to always feel like they can talk about anything with me. As most parents would, I would be pretty horrified to hear the words from a 15-year-old, "Dad, I'm pregnant" (or "I got somebody pregnant"), and honestly, I'm very optimistic that those words won't be forthcoming from a teen (we have really good kids), but I want them to feel like they could come and say those words if need be.
As for the 'grinch lady,' whatever your views on Santa, I think she was very unwise. It just wasn't her place to set a classroom full of younger kids straight on that issue. In the terms Texas Mom used, it wasn't her business.
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