Posted on 12/22/2005 12:03:18 PM PST by hipaatwo
writes to the Senate about the eavesdropping frenzy.
It's a PDF file
I only wish the entire left would be presented with this fact. BUT we all know the MSM has and will continue to, completely ignore this fact. Liberal talk radio dismisses this out of hand and state that only BUSH is the one breaking the law. All other Presidents were not spying on Americans and when they did they followed the FISA courts requirements. What they won't tell you is that Clintoon did spy on Aldrich Ames (US Citizen, CIA employee turned traitor) without a court order. Clinton Claimed Authority to Order No-Warrant Searches
It's not a weasel word. It's common sense to use flexible terms in cases where discretion may be required.
By your interpretation, the government can violate the fourth amendment whenever they say it's reasonable of them to do so.
By definition, it's not a violation if it's reasonable. It's not just the government that decides that, of course. The courts have a role, but so do we.
Most people are upset now because they don't know all the details, and don't feel like they really understand the issue. So long as the government is found to have been doing it's best to only target Al Qaida, and kept the program secret to make it an effective tool to save lives, then most people, given the situation, will find that reasonable. I'm sure that this kind of flexibility is exactly as the Founders intended.
The only problem with that interpretation, of course, is that the framers wrote the amendment to limit federal authority; and a limit that gets to be decided upon by the feds themselves is no limit at all.
Yes, to limit it by situation (hence the 'weasel wording'). The speed limit may be 25mph in some places, and 70mph in others. The fact that it's not always the same standard in every case doesn't make different speed limits a bad idea.
I think the argument based on FISA is weak, but otherwise it's good stuff.
Here are some bonus links, just for fun. Not relevant because they are more FISA related, and eeven there, more to the point of threshhold for obtaining a FISA warrant.
Senate statment re: warrants and "substantial" v. "significant" purpose ...
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/hatch-fisa.html
KYL: Until Senator Schumer arrives, I make another point. There has been a worry on the part of some that this expands the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to private American citizens. I make it crystal clear that is not true. ...SCHUMER: Here is the problem. They also must show under present law that the target is an agent of a foreign power, such as Iraq, or a known foreign terrorist group, such as Hamas or al-Qaida. That is the hurdle we are removing. If that requirement had not been in place, there is no question the FBI could have gotten a warrant to do electronic surveillance on Zacarias Moussaoui and, who knows, not certainly but perhaps, 9/11 might not have occurred.
That is the anguish we all face. Right now we know there may be terrorists plotting on American soil. We may have all kinds of reasons to believe [[Page S5902]] they are preparing to commit acts of terrorism. But we cannot do the surveillance we need if we cannot tie them to a foreign power or an international terrorist group. It is a catch-22. We need the surveillance to get the information we need to be able to do the surveillance. It makes no sense. The simple fact is, it should not matter whether we can tie someone to a foreign power. Whether our intelligence is just not good enough or whether the terrorist is acting as a lone wolf or it is a new group of 10 people who have not been affiliated with any known terrorist group, should not affect whether we can do surveillance, should not affect whether they are a danger to the United States, should not affect whether they are preparing to do terrorism. Engaging in international terrorism should be enough for our intelligence experts to start surveillance.
It is important to note if we remove this last requirement now it will immeasurably aid law enforcement without exposing American citizens or those who hold green cards to the slightest additional surveillance. ...
NAYS--4: Byrd, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin
NOT VOTING--6: Biden, Graham (FL), Kennedy, Kerry, Lieberman, Murkowski
Senate debate re: "lone wolf" provision for obtaining a FISA warrant ...
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s050803.html
It is rather intricate ....but goes back to key points of the Constitution.
Might be good to read this first:
Powerline makes some similiar observations on the legality of the NSA electronic intercept program.
AMEN.
I don't want to see someone quietly resign and just disappear off the radar screens. I think this time it's going to be necessary to make a big deal out of this and someone needs to go to prison. Otherwise, these things will continue.
As you know, in response to unauthorized disclosures in the media, the President has described certain activities of the National Security Agency ("NSA") that he has authorized since shortly after September 11, 2001. As described by the President, the NSA intercepts certain international communications into and out of the United States of people linked to al Qaeda or an affiliated terrorist organization. The purpose of these intercepts is to establish an early warning system to detect and prevent another catastrophic terrorist attack on the United States. The President has made clear that he will use his constitutional and statutory authorities to protect the American people from further terrorist attacks, and the NSA activities the President described are part of that effort. Leaders of the Congress were briefed on these activities more than a dozen times. The purpose of this letter is to provide an additional brief summary of the legal authority supporting the NSA activities described by the President. As an initial matter, I emphasize a few points. The President stated that these activities are "crucial to our national security." The President further explained that "the unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk. Revealing classified information is illegal, alerts our enemies, and endangers our country." These critical national security activities remain classified. All United States laws and policies governing the protection and nondisclosure of national security information, including the information relating to the activities described by the President, remain in full force and effect. The unauthorized disclosure of classified information violates federal criminal law. The Government may provide further classified briefings to the Congress on these activities in an appropriate manner. Any such briefings will be conducted in a manner that will not endanger national security. Under Article Ii of the Constitution, including in his capacity as Commander in Chief, the President has the responsibility to protect the Nation from further attacks, and the Constitution gives him all necessary authority to fulfill that duty. See, e.g., Prize Cases, 67 U.S. (2 Black) 635, 668 (1863) (stressing that if the Nation is invaded, "the President is not only authorized but bound to resist by force .... without waiting for any special legislative authority"); Campbell v. Clinton, 203 F.3d 19, 27 (D.C. Cir. 2000) (Silberman, J., concurring) ("[T]he Prize Cases . . . stand for the proposition that the President has independent authority to repel aggressive acts by third parties even without specific congressional authorization, and courts may not review the level of force selected."); id. at 40 (Tate], J., concurring). The Congress recognized this constitutional authority in the preamble to the Authorization for the Use of Military Force ("AUMF") of September 18, 2001, 115 Slat. 224 (2001) ("[T]he President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States."), and in the War Powers Resolution, see 50 U.S.C. § 1541(c) ("The constitutional powers of the President as Commander in Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities[] . . . [extend to] a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."). This constitutional authority includes the authority to order warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance within the United States, as all federal appellate courts, including at least four circuits, to have addressed the issue have concluded. See, e.g., In re Sealed Case, 310 F.3d 717, 742 (FISA Ct. of Review 2002) ("[A]ll the other courts to have decided the issue [have] held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information . . . . We take for granted that the President does have that authority . . . ."). The Supreme Court has said that warrants are generally required in the context of purely domestic threats. but it expressly distinguished foreign threats. See United States v. United States District Court, 407 U.S. 297, 308 (1972). As Justice Byron White recognized almost 40 years ago, Presidents have long exercised the authority to conduct warrantless surveillance for national security purposes, and a warrant is unnecessary "if the President of the United States or his chief legal officer, the Attorney General, has considered the requirements of national security and authorized electronic surveillance as reasonable." Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 363-64 (1967) (White, J., concurring). The President's constitutional authority to direct the NSA to conduct the activities he described is supplemented by statutory authority under the AUMF. The AUMF authorizes the President "to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, . . . in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States." § 2(a). The AUMF clearly contemplates action within the United States, see also id. pmbl. (the attacks of September 11 "render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad"). The AUMF cannot be read as limited to authorizing the use of force against Afghanistan, as some have argued. Indeed, those who directly "committed" the attacks of September 11 resided in the United States for months before those attacks. The reality of the September I 1 plot demonstrates that the authorization of force covers activities both on foreign soil and in America. in Hanadi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), the Supreme Court addressed the scope of the AUMF. At least five Justices concluded that the AUMF authorized the President to detain a U.S. citizen in the United States because "detention to prevent a combatant's return to the battlefield is a fundamental incident of waging war" and is therefore included in the "necessary and appropriate force" authorized by the Congress. Id. at 518-19 (plurality opinion of O'Connor, J.); see id. at 587 (Thomas, J., dissenting). These five Justices concluded that the AUMF "clearly and unmistakably authorize[s]" the "fundamental incidents] of waging war." Id. at 518-19 (plurality opinion); see id. at 587 (Thomas, J., dissenting). Communications intelligence targeted at the enemy is a fundamental incident of the use of military force. indeed, throughout history, signals intelligence has formed a critical part of waging war. In the Civil War, each side tapped the telegraph lines of the other. In the World Wars, the United States intercepted telegrams into and out of the country. The AUMF cannot be read to exclude this long-recognized and essential authority to conduct communications intelligence targeted at the enemy. We cannot fight a war blind. Because communications intelligence activities constitute, to use the language of Hamdi, a fundamental incident of waging war, the AUMF clearly and unmistakably authorizes such activities directed against the communications of our enemy. Accordingly, the President's "authority is at its maximum." Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 635 (1952) (Jackson, J., concurring); see Dames & Moore v. Regan, 453 U.S. 654, 668 (1981); cf Youngstown, 343 U.S. at 585 (noting the absence of a statute "from which [the asserted authority] could] be fairly implied"). The President's authorization of targeted electronic surveillance by the NSA is also consistent with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act ("FISA"). Section 2511(2)(f) of title 18 provides, as relevant here, that the procedures of FISA and two chapters of title 18 "shall be the exclusive means by which electronic surveillance ... may be conducted." Section 109 of FISA, in turn, makes it unlawful to conduct electronic surveillance, "except as authorized by statute." 50 U.S.C. § 1809(a)(1). Importantly, section 109's exception for electronic surveillance "authorized by statute" is broad, especially considered in the context of surrounding provisions. See 18 U.S.C. § 2511(1) ("Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter any person who-(a) intentionally intercepts ... any wire, oral, or electronic communication[] . . . shall be punished .. . .") (emphasis added); id. § 2511(2)(e) (providing a defense to liability to individuals "conduct[ing] electronic surveil lance, . . . as authorized by that Act [FISH]") (emphasis added). By expressly and broadly excepting from its prohibition electronic surveillance undertaken "as authorized by statute," section 109 of FISA permits an exception to the "procedures" of FISA referred to in 18 U.S.C. § 251 1(2)(f) where authorized by another statute, even if the other authorizing statute does not specifically amend section 2511(2)(f). The AUMF satisfies section 109's requirement for statutory authorization of electronic surveillance, just as a majority of the Court in Hamdi concluded that it satisfies the requirement in 18 U.S.C. § 4001(a) that no U.S. citizen be detained by the United States "except pursuant to an Act of Congress." See Hamdi, 542 U.S. at 519 (explaining that "it is of no moment that the AUMF does not use specific language of detention"); see id. at 587 (Thomas, J., dissenting). Some might suggest that FISA could be read to require that a subsequent statutory authorization must come in the form of an amendment to FISA itself. But under established principles of statutory construction, the AUMF and FISA must be constnied in harmony to avoid any potential conflict between FISA and the President's Article II authority as Commander in Chief. See. e.g., Zadiydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678, 689 (2001); INS v. St. Cyr, 533 U.S. 289, 300 (2001). Accordingly, any ambiguity as to whether the AUMF is a statute that satisfies the requirements of FISA and allows electronic surveillance in the conflict with al Qaeda without complying with FISA procedures must be resolved in favor of an interpretation that is consistent with the President's long-recognized authority. The NSA activities described by the President are also consistent with the Fourth Amendment and the protection of civil liberties. The Fourth Amendment's "central requirement is one of reasonableness." Illinois v. McArthur, 531 U.S. 326, 330 (2001) (internal quotation marks omitted). For searches conducted in the course of ordinary criminal law enforcement, reasonableness generally requires securing a warrant. See Bd. of Educ. v. Earls, 536 U.S. 822, 828 (2002). Outside the ordinary criminal law enforcement context, however, the Supreme Court has, at times, dispensed with the warrant, instead adjudging the reasonableness of a search under the totality of the circumstances. See United States v. Knights, 534 U.S. 1 1 2 , 1 1 8 (2001). In particular, the Supreme Court has long recognized that "special needs, beyond the normal need for law enforcement," can justify departure from the usual warrant requirement. Vernonia School Dist. 47J v. Acton, 515 U.S. 646, 653 (1995); see also City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32, 41-42 (2000) (striking down checkpoint where "primary purpose was to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing"). Foreign intelligence collection, especially in the midst of an armed conflict in which the adversary has already launched catastrophic attacks within the United States, fits squarely within the "special needs" exception to the warrant requirement. Foreign intelligence collection undertaken to prevent further devastating attacks on our Nation serves the highest government purpose through means other than traditional law enforcement. See In re Sealed Case, 3 10 F.3d at 745; United States v. Duggan, 743 F.2d 59, 72 (2d Cir. 1984) (recognizing that the Fourth Amendment implications of foreign intelligence surveillance are far different from ordinary wiretapping, because they are not principally used for criminal prosecution). Intercepting communications into and out of the United States of persons linked to al Qaeda in order to detect and prevent a catastrophic attack is clearly reasonable. Reasonableness is generally determined by "balancing the nature of the intnision on the individual's privacy against the promotion of legitimate governmental interests." Earls, 536 U.S. at 829. There is undeniably an important and legitimate privacy interest at stake with respect to the activities described by the President. That must be balanced, however, against the Government's compelling interest in the security of the Nation, see, e.g., Haig v. Agee, 453 U.S. 280, 307 (1981) .("It is obvious and unarguable that no governmental interest is more compelling than the security of the Nation.") (citation and quotation marks omitted). The fact that the NSA activities are reviewed and reauthorized approximately every 45 days to ensure that they continue to be necessary and appropriate further demonstrates the reasonableness of these activities. As explained above, the President determined that it was necessary following September 1 1 to create an early warning detection system. FISA could not have provided the speed and agility required for the early warning detection system. In addition, any legislative change, other than the AUMF, that the President might have sought specifically to create such an early warning system would have been public and would have tipped off our enemies concerning our intelligence limitations and capabilities. Nevertheless, I want to stress that the United States makes full use of FISA to address the terrorist threat, and FISA has proven to be a very important tool, especially in longer-term investigations. In addition, the United States is constantly assessing all available legal options, taking full advantage of any developments in the law. We hope this information is helpful. Sincerely, (Original signed by William E. Moschella) William E. Moschella |
Very interesting discussions; thanks for the ping to this and the easier read in #190 of the Asst AG's letter.
Thanks, Don. That's probably all quite a bit over my head technically, but I get the gist. For some reason, it seems a lot of us have started having this trouble with PDF files recently.
Your Welcome Peach!
All the best to you and your family for Christmas, Don, and best of health in the New Year.
Do you think we need to push our Republicans to make a stink, or do they need to come to that conclusion on their own?
I think we need to make a lot of noise demanding that something be done.
I tend to think the senators will protect their own, so they can't be trusted with this.
It's true the political class protects themselves. What kind of noise can/should we make?
And you know this, how????
The NSA has not published any list of who they tapped. It would seem to me that you are simply presupposing to meet your own belief agenda.
It is unfortunate that you have no supporting FACTS for your supposition.
Semper Disinformation
Boston Tea Party!////
As I was reading your posts you made several good points with other posters that I had to agree with one of which was that by just doing the legal thing rather than the following the Constitution we have closed our minds to other possible solutions that are constitutional.
As I continued to read other Freepers opinions I was still convinced that you were right in your belief that the President acted unconstitutionally.
Since neither of us are Supreme Court Justices (those are the funny people in black robes that determine if a law is constitutional) I have to rely on them.
So when I read this "letter" which quotes SCJ's it carries a little more weight than a conversation between you and I.
By your answer I see that you are so smart you do not even have to read the letter or consider what SCJ's have said in the past.
Trident - I haven't seen you around in a dog's age. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
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