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The question even Darwin avoided
The Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 12/22/05 | Paul Davies

Posted on 12/22/2005 7:15:18 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

WHEN Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, he gave a convincing account of how life has evolved over billions of years from simple microbes to the complexity of the Earth's biosphere to the present. But he pointedly left out how life got started.

One might as well speculate about the origin of matter, he quipped. Today scientists have a good idea of how matter originated in the Big Bang, but the origin of life remains shrouded in mystery.

Although Darwin refused to be drawn on how life began, he conjectured in a letter to a friend about "a warm little pond" in which various substances would accumulate.

Driven by the energy of sunlight, these chemicals might become increasingly complex, until a living cell formed spontaneously. Darwin's idle speculation became the basis of the "primordial soup" theory of biogenesis, and was adopted by researchers eager to re-create the crucial steps in the laboratory. But this approach hasn't got very far.

The problem is that even the simplest known organism is incredibly complex. Textbooks vaguely describe the pathway from non-living chemicals to primitive life in terms of some unspecified "molecular self-assembly".

The problem lies with 19th-century thinking, when life was regarded as some sort of magic matter, fostering the belief that it could be cooked up in a test tube if only one knew the recipe.

Today many scientists view the living cell as a type of supercomputer - an information-processing and replicating system of extraordinary fidelity. DNA is a database, and a complex encrypted algorithm converts its instructions into molecular products.

(Excerpt) Read more at smh.com.au ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; darwin; intelligentdesign
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To: Ichneumon
if a "soul" is required for self-awareness, what about the fact that most people deny that animals have souls

There are different kinds of souls (or Aristotelian "forms"): vegetative, animal and human. Human souls include the powers of the other two, plus the subsistent intellect/will.

St. Thomas on the soul

201 posted on 12/22/2005 10:25:33 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Amelia
Science doesn't deal with right vs. wrong or good vs. bad, either.

I seem to recall touching on these in Science (Sociology) class. The "irrational roots of rationality" of Max Weber pondered why we do the "right" thing.

202 posted on 12/22/2005 10:25:43 AM PST by getitright (Liberalism is irresponsible.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Paper or plastic?


203 posted on 12/22/2005 10:26:47 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: atlaw

actually I did, I don't right now. My document with the links has disappeared ( I know - how convenient).


204 posted on 12/22/2005 10:27:18 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: blowfish
Modern Astronomy isn't a science, since I can't create a star in the lab

A star is nothing more than a large fusion reaction, and mankind has created such reactions. They are called hydrogen bombs.
205 posted on 12/22/2005 10:27:24 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: Ichneumon
It is interesting to me that this ToE vs ID issue comes up simultaneously with the left's war on God, the church, Christmas, etc. It seems another leftist issue and front in the battle to change our culture to one more amenable to Communism

I like a good conspiracy theory as the next guy, but this one isn't very good.

Actually, Karl Marx so liked Darwin's Origin of Species that he wrote Darwin and told him he would like to dedicate the 2nd volume of Das Capital to him...Darwin refused the offer. So I think it's pretty well established that darwinism is very appealing to communists and it has been used by them to promote atheism.

206 posted on 12/22/2005 10:29:03 AM PST by Mogollon
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To: mvpel
The shape of a snowflake is dictated by the physical characteristics of the water from which it is made.

The shape of a snowflake is based upon the external forces acting upon that individual snowflake. Otherwise snowflakes could be identical.

207 posted on 12/22/2005 10:29:59 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: JamesP81
A star is nothing more than a large fusion reaction, and mankind has created such reactions. They are called hydrogen bombs.

Not all stars are fueled by hydrogen fusion. Your post is incorrect and pointless. Astronomy operates by observation and inference, not by experiment.

208 posted on 12/22/2005 10:31:01 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: ElectricStrawberry
Initially you claimed "I CAN scientifically prove that creation didn't happen yesterday". Now you simply assert "my calibrated clocks keep good calibrated time to prove that everything wasn't created yesterday". Don't you see that if everything was created yesterday, your clocks would look exactly like they look right now? So, your appeal to the present appearance of your clocks to "scientifically prove that creation did not happen yesterday" proves nothing at all, since the evidence would look exactly the same if creation did happen yesterday.

-A8

209 posted on 12/22/2005 10:31:19 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Mike Darancette
You posted:

Intelligent design has nothing to do with evolution or creationism.

I responded:

Not factually correct. Didn't you read the court transcript which showed the Panda book originally had "creation" in numerous places, but after the Supreme Court Edwards decision in 1987 a global search and replace was made to insert "intelligence"? ...

Now you respond:

What does a singular court decision based on one poorly crafted book have to do with deciding the fallacy of ID?

I demonstrated a connection between ID and creationism. I did not attempt to demonstrate a "fallacy" or any such.

I merely responded to your claim "Intelligent design has nothing to do with evolution or creationism" with evidence to the contrary.

210 posted on 12/22/2005 10:32:07 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: JamesP81
spontaneous generation does not occur

That was a statement to try to kill the rampant assumption even 200 years ago that worms and flies and tadpoles formed from unhealthy pools of muck. It is not necessary to extend it to an absolute law.

211 posted on 12/22/2005 10:34:23 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: JamesP81
Robot Demonstrates Self Awareness

This link has been provided courtesy of Darwin Central, "The Conspiracy that Cares."

212 posted on 12/22/2005 10:34:55 AM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: Mike Darancette
Your link does not work...

Corrected in #123 and again here:

The Wedge Strategy.

213 posted on 12/22/2005 10:35:55 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman
"Intelligent design has nothing to do with evolution or creationism"

. Let me change that statement then.

"Intelligent design no causal relationship with evolution or creationism".

214 posted on 12/22/2005 10:39:26 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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The "Wedge Document": "So What?"
215 posted on 12/22/2005 10:41:07 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: orionblamblam
Nope. I could build you a rocket, however. Nevertheless, the fact that I can't build a virus no more means that a virus needs a god to make it than my inability to create a snowflake means that only the direct interventionn of this same hypothetical god is required to shape the snowflake into its intricate pattern.

The theory that just given enough time and randomness that life will form is like given the letters of the alphabet and letting a random generator create words, sentences, paragraphs, chapters that eventually you will have all the works of William Shakespeare. RIGHT?

216 posted on 12/22/2005 10:42:34 AM PST by Coffee_drinker (The best defense is a strong preemptive strike..)
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To: Ichneumon; RightWingAtheist; NormB
I like a good conspiracy theory as the next guy, but this one isn't very good.

Maybe you will like this one better. There are many Democrat moles on FR whose purpose is to divide the Republicans by alienating conservatives. Like that one?

217 posted on 12/22/2005 10:46:31 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: bobbdobbs
"Law" has nothing to do with whether a statement is correct or not: some are, some aren't. Look again at the definitions you posted: the unifying theme is that laws are based upon observation: 1) an empirical generalization, 2) deduced from particular facts, 3) observed regularities.

Consider the difference between Newton's law of gravitation and Einstein's theory of gravitation. Newton started with measurements and made his equation to fit them; Einstein started with a set of physical principles, and derived his equations from them.

218 posted on 12/22/2005 10:47:04 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Aquinasfan
I'm sure that in the future it will be possible to write unimaginably complex programs that will be able to mimic human behavior in some ways. But a computer can never truly think.

Agreed. You ever see The Matrix? Not gonna happen...
219 posted on 12/22/2005 10:48:36 AM PST by JamesP81
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To: atlaw

well, in my search for the links again... I am getting a lot of hits to the fact that the info I recieved is not true...


220 posted on 12/22/2005 10:50:06 AM PST by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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