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Appeals Court Refuses to Transfer Padilla
Associated Press ^ | December 21, 2005 | Toni Locy

Posted on 12/21/2005 2:06:48 PM PST by AntiGuv

WASHINGTON - In a sharp rebuke, a federal appeals court denied Wednesday a Bush administration request to transfer terrorism suspect Jose Padilla from military to civilian law enforcement custody.

The three-judge panel of the Richmond-based 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals also refused the administration's request to vacate a September ruling that gave President Bush wide authority to detain "enemy combatants" indefinitely without charges on U.S. soil.

The decision, written by Judge Michael Luttig, questioned why the administration used one set of facts before the court for 3 1/2 years to justify holding Padilla without charges but used another set to convince a grand jury in Florida to indict him last month.

Luttig said the administration has risked its "credibility before the courts" by appearing to use the indictment of Padilla to thwart an appeal of the appeals court's decision that gave the president wide berth in holding enemy combatants.

Padilla, a former Chicago gang member, was arrested in 2002 at Chicago's O'Hare Airport as he returned to the United States from Afghanistan. Justice and Defense Department officials alleged Padilla had come home to carry out an al-Qaida backed plot to blow up apartment buildings in New York, Washington or Florida.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 4thcircuit; enemycombatant; jihadinamerica; luttig; padilla; terrortrials; wot
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To: Sir_Humphrey

indeed, look at the warrantless search of Aldrich Ames home conducted under Clinton. once the citizen has essentally become an agent of a foreign power, the game changes. I saw no uproar over Aldrich Ames rights being violated.


121 posted on 12/21/2005 6:10:40 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Sir_Humphrey
"Not to fight Oceanviews battles, but just exactly where the F fid he say that?"

Notice that I posed it as a question, not a statement.

I said "I'm not sure when following the Constitution and rule of law became a controversial position."

He replied "when two planes flew into the world trade center"

I'm not sure how to interpret that except that the Constitution and rule of law became controversial after 9/11.

That's why I was asking for clarification.
122 posted on 12/21/2005 6:12:19 PM PST by ndt
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To: Sir_Humphrey

LOL - exactly - now multiply that by coordinated terrorists attacks and it quickly adds up (especially if YOU or family / loved ones are one of the unlucky ones).


123 posted on 12/21/2005 6:12:30 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: ndt

The Constitution is not a suicide pact - if it becomes one, then YES ditch it!


124 posted on 12/21/2005 6:14:12 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: Sir_Humphrey; clawrence3
"Whew, for a while there I tought we had something to be concerned about."

It is defiantly something to be worried about, but we are NOT talking about millions of lives as suggested by clawrence3.

It's big, it's horrible. but an order of magnitude off of what some think.
125 posted on 12/21/2005 6:14:33 PM PST by ndt
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To: clawrence3
"Well, ndt, ONE such "detail" obviously includes allowing the NSA to find said terrorists and affiliates."

And where did I say NOT to?
126 posted on 12/21/2005 6:16:02 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

O.K., what's your best estimate of casualties from 50 suitcase nukes timed simultaneously (or staggered if that causes the most panic) in the 50 cities I linked to above?

Mine is 2 million, so there.


127 posted on 12/21/2005 6:17:51 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: ndt
very likely illegal.

Where to you get that?

128 posted on 12/21/2005 6:18:36 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: oceanview
"we didn't "ditch" anything, we have exceptions when conditions warrant it under extraordinary circumstances."

There are no exceptions to the Constitution except those provided BY the Constitution.

"I see no evidence that the enemy combatant designation has been misused - hell, its hardly been used at all."

The last question was related to nuclear bombs, not this case. The nuclear threat will never go away, so anything we do to minimize the danger will always be with us.
129 posted on 12/21/2005 6:19:40 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

Where did I say you DON'T want to allow whatever means the President and NSA deems appropriate - good to have you aboard though - maybe all that "ditching the Constitution" talk above was some big misunderstanding.


130 posted on 12/21/2005 6:20:11 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: Sir_Humphrey
"I'd agree with that except that Taliban Johnny forfeited that protection "

I would agree with you in that case. He was caught on foreign soil with a foreign "military".
131 posted on 12/21/2005 6:21:14 PM PST by ndt
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To: AntiGuv

And Luttig is so much better than Harriette Myers. /sarcasm

Padilla's a flipping traitor, and his name when he fought against his own nation was Abdullah al-Muhajir.

Wonder why Luttig can't see through this Padilla crap?


132 posted on 12/21/2005 6:21:44 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: ndt
It is defiantly something to be worried about, but we are NOT talking about millions of lives as suggested by clawrence3. It's big, it's horrible. but an order of magnitude off of what some think.

Well that gives us all cause to breathe easier. Of course it may be a coordinated attack on 6 or so major population centers but even so we still probably won't hit that magical one million mark that may make some really sit up and take notice of the threat.

133 posted on 12/21/2005 6:22:13 PM PST by Sir_Humphrey (The mighty oak is just a nut who held it's ground)
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To: clawrence3
"50 "small" suitcase bombs will kill millions: "

You are assuming the death of every person in the city from 10-20 tons of explosive force? It would level a building or two, not a city.
134 posted on 12/21/2005 6:22:56 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

nope, no difference according to your strict interpetation. a US citizens rights extends to anywhere he is. either Padilla and John Walker both were agents of a foreign power, or they were just regular "criminals". we can't be at war with these people everywhere in the world - except at OHare airport.


135 posted on 12/21/2005 6:24:22 PM PST by oceanview
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To: ndt

I'm NOT assuming that - YOU ARE - every person in said cities would be over 45 million dead, not 2 million. What's your worse case estimate?


136 posted on 12/21/2005 6:25:11 PM PST by clawrence3
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To: clawrence3
"The Constitution is not a suicide pact - if it becomes one, then YES ditch it!"

And there we have it folks the first honest "Constitution, who needs it".

Needless to say I disagree, but I applaud you honesty.
137 posted on 12/21/2005 6:25:24 PM PST by ndt
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To: jwalsh07

Yup, this just solidifies my support for Luttig for the next SCOTUS seat.

In response to those who knee-jerk that Luttig is a bad guy because he ruled against Bush, I have two comments.

First, ruling against the President on a war-related issue would only help him in confirmation hearings.

It is also far from clear to me that Luttig was actually ruling against what the Bush administration wanted in this case -- smells like one of those "wheels within wheels" pieces of work. Sounds like he kept Bush from getting beat in the SCOTUS.


138 posted on 12/21/2005 6:28:15 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: lugsoul
If he will walk in a trial, he shouldn't be in jail for years. I'm amazed how many folks here feel differently, but we shouldn't be jailing people for what we think - but can't prove - they did, or for what we think they might do.

I think th eproblem isn't that we haven't the evidence... but that the evidence is highly classified (perhaps the methods involved in obtaining the evidence), and thus the govt. might prefer to let him walk rather than reveal their methods.

139 posted on 12/21/2005 6:28:26 PM PST by XEHRpa
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To: ndt

You're welcome - I shall not return the favor in some macabre admiration that less than 1 million will die.


140 posted on 12/21/2005 6:28:36 PM PST by clawrence3
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