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And I'll bet the MSM will devote as much attention to this as they did to Cindy Sheehan's "vigils'... |
Posted on 12/21/2005 7:24:58 AM PST by piperpilot
To pray -- or not to pray -- in Jesus' name is the question plaguing an increasing number of U.S. military chaplains, one of whom began a multiday hunger strike outside the White House yesterday.
"I am a Navy chaplain being fired because I pray in Jesus' name," said Navy Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt, who will be holding 6 p.m. prayer vigils daily in Lafayette Park.
The hunger strike is intended to persuade President Bush to issue an executive order allowing military chaplains to pray according to their individual faith traditions. The American Center for Law and Justice has gathered 173,000 signatures on a petition seeking an executive order.
Seventy-three members of Congress have joined the request, saying in an Oct. 25 letter to the president, "In all branches of the military, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christian chaplains to use the name of Jesus when praying."
About 80 percent of U.S. troops are Christian, the legislators wrote, adding that military "censorship" of chaplains' prayers disenfranchises "hundreds of thousands of Christian soldiers in the military who look to their chaplains for comfort, inspiration and support."
Official military policy allows any sort of prayer, but Lt. Klingenschmitt says that in reality, evangelical Protestant prayers are censored. He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where "they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God," he said. "But if you pray in Jesus' name, they counsel you."
Muslim, Jewish and Roman Catholic chaplains are likewise told not to pray in the name of Allah, in Hebrew or in the name of the Trinity, he added.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
I am very skeptical regarding the veracity of this man's accusations.
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And I'll bet the MSM will devote as much attention to this as they did to Cindy Sheehan's "vigils'... |
Funny, you ever read the Gospel of John. I suggest you read Chapter 6, He is not being figurative. And please, stop being patronizing, it is does not shine favorably on yourself.
If by Co-redeemer you mean Mary said yes to God's plan for justice, yes she is. If you mean that Mary redeems us just as Jesus Christ redeems us, you are greatly mistaken.
"You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church."
Course, echoing the words of nmh, there is no use talking to them. They just get angry and defensive and don't defend their beliefs or deny them (sarcasm off).
Glad for a little back-up. Getting tagged team by two who know so little. It is sad that their blind hatred of the Church results in their inability to see the Truth. But then again, we are just a bunch of idolatrous female worshipping cannibals afterall. :)
God Bless you and Merry Christmas. Enjoy the 12 day Feast of Christmas.
StAthanasius is right, in the sense that Mary and the saints are not dead, but are very much alive in the Lord. But that's a separate discussion/debate. If you take the words literally, however, it's not completely correct either. Catholic do pray to the saints. The word that is at issue here is "pray."
Many of the post-Luther non-Catholic Christians think that prayer is an act that should only be directed to God. In a sense, to them it is like latria, the adoration due only to God.
However, their idea/use of the word is too narrow. When Catholic pray to saints, we ask for a specific kind of intercession. Any grace or blessing that is obtained from this prayer is due to God's will. At the same time, credit is due to the saint who prayed for us in heaven. We give glory to God for utilizing this great blessing He alone has created for us. He alone created ALL of these examples of holiness. All credit is due to Him, but we do not take away from His glory by lauding His saints in heaven, who intercede for us.
If someone saw you kneel on the ground, and you had your Bible in front of you, and didn't know anything about your practices, wouldn't they receive a similar impression?
The words of the Master Himself, from John 6:
"Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum. Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?"
Two thousands years later, his words still scandalize many.
THE NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME.
They guy was on one of the talkshows yesterday and is a loose canon. His senior Chaplain came on afterward and set the record stright on many of his outlandish claims. He will most likely be seperated after failing to promote twice in a few years.
He is engaging in political speech while using the uniform of the US Navy. Big no-no.
A book represents ideas. A statute is something else all together. I was just saying that nmh was not wrong when he said that some Catholics worship Mary. I don't know that it characterizes the religion.
Catholic do offer her veneration, which can appear to be worship. The sheer majority do not think she is God however. You should see the respect given to the communion host. Those who have been properly taught get down on both their knees and bow when it is exposed.
Many post-Luther non-Catholic Christians have this "either/or" mentality which is often the cause of these "Catholics worship Mary" ideas.
I witnessed a woman go up to the Mary statue and kneel down to pray. To Mary. You can call it veneration, but it's still worship. Again, it may well not be what the majority of Catholic churches do or teach, but this one did.
There you go again.
You are not listening. Certainly honor is given to Mary, she is due it. Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother. That would seem to imply Jesus honored his mother, should we not do the same.
As for your idea that This Catholic Church taught to worship Mary, that is ludicrous. If it did it is not Catholic. Rather than bringing your biases to the area, I suggest you read and learn what the Church teaches. It would do you a great deal of good.
Look at it this way. If you kneel to pray with the Bible in your hand, you could be seen as worshiping the book, not necessarily the ideas, which are not visible. If you kneel to pray in front of your bed, are you worshiping the bed. Your logic says yes. Catholics would say no. Rather the Bible in prayer, statues in prayer, the Blessed Sacrament serve as tools which assist in prayer directing our worship and adoration to Christ.
I'm glad that my Catholic husband is a reasonable man who enjoys discussing these issues. We have great give-and-take discussions.
How do you know she was praying to Mary? Were you there listening to her? Were you in her head reading her mind? If not, one would not want to be presumptous to know what someone else is thinking. But if you are that enlightened on your walk and you know what is in others hearts and minds when others pray, well, that is something.
Here is what likely happened, but I won't presume to know. A woman went to a statue of Mary, knelt to pray, and asked Mary for her prayers. Maybe it sounded like this, but I am only speculating, for I don't know, "Hail Mary, Full of Grace, Blessed Are Thou Amongst Women and Blessed is the Fruit of Thy Womb, Jesus" (That sounds a lot like something in the Bible). "Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Sounds like she is asking for someone's spiritual support, like one would ask a Pastor or a friend.
My Catholic husband was with me and was surprised. He assumed the same thing I did and found it unusual. That's why I find it incredulous that someone who was not there is lecturing me on what I saw or didn't see.
No, You said you saw someone kneel in front of a statue of Mary. I will agree and say you did.
What I am lecturing you on is your incredible ability to know what the woman was saying and thinking. I am incredulous that you give yourself that ability.
God bless and Merry Christmas.
Passing it on...
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