4 GOP Senators Hold Firm Against Patriot Act Renewal

Washington Post ^ | Charles Babington | Charles Babington

[singfreedom]

I saved the pictures to my hard drive (and have even had to move them to a new computer) just to remind myself why we are fighting this war and what the consequences could be if we just give up.

[A Citizen Reporter]

"A person won't ever know if they've had their records subpoenaed so they won't even be able to challenge it."

The Patriot Act was signed on October 26,2001. It is as of today December 20, 2005. Over 4 years. Where is your beef?

All that trolling and no case?

[singfreedom]

I HAVE thought about it----as have the other people posting, and he's wrong. I just hope he can stand it when our children and grandchildren hate him for allowing what could be the consequences of his inaction.

[jonrick46]

It was Russell Feingold (D) of Wisconsin that initiated the opposition against the Patriot Act. While many Americans have not read the Patriot Act, over 340 pages long, I trust that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has read them. It is he who said that the version under consideration was respectful of civil liberties. He asked the Senate to trust the Bush Administration to protect American's civil liberties. Indeed, who of us have even read the new compromise modifications, brought forth by several committees, that were being considered by the Senate. All we hear is Senator Feingold's blistering words from the Senate floor:

"Trust of government cannot be demanded, or asserted, or assumed, it must be earned," the senator said. "And this government has not earned our trust. It has fought reasonable safeguards for constitutional freedoms every step of the way. It has resisted congressional oversight and often misled the public about its use of the Patriot Act."

This is not about trusting the Bush Administration, it is about having the intelligence Radar with which a nation can detect terrorists. There is nothing President Bush could do to secure the trust of the DemonRATs. In fact it is disingenuous for the DemonRATs to speak about "reasonable safeguards for constitutional freedoms" when they have ran roughshod over such safeguards.

Feingold continues:
"And now the Attorney General is arguing that the conference report is adequate ‘protection for civil liberties for all Americans.' It isn't."

Senator Larry Craig repeated the same sentiments:

"Folks, when we're dealing with civil liberties, you don't compromise them". . . . “We’ve been cautioned before by our leaders down through history that we should not allow our concern about security to deny us our constitutional freedoms,” Craig said, “I don’t step back from protecting civil liberties and I never will.” “My disagreement with the president’s statement at his press conference is that the ability to connect the dots is still in place,” Craig said. “The firewalls are not in that area of the law that’s expiring.”

Folks, this war is not about constitutional freedoms. It is about the preservation of life for our citizens. Without such life, there will be no constitution. The full function of the Patriot Act is necessary for the security of this country. We need the full box of tools so there are no openings for terrorists to sneak through.

Senator John Sununu, one of the four Senators opposing the extension of the Patriot Act said, "There is still no meaningful judicial review," said [Sununu], Congress should "do a better job of protecting civil liberties. Law enforcement is not undermined or threatened by a judicial-review process of any kind."

I maintain it is very difficult to exercise judicial review without tipping off the target of the inquiry.

"But we also recognized that there would come times in which extraordinary circumstances would require a moment in time in which we would need to step back and allow law enforcement to move," said Craig. "That time is over."

This says that because there have been no terrorist events in this country, that the need for the Patriot Act is over. The Patriot Act has prevented the terrorists from committing terrorist acts in our country. The time is not over. The seven year extension is necessary.

[blondee123]

Not my representatives but I need to remember to send these folks a Christmas card and a thank you note

Perhaps we should all send them pictures of the Twin Towers in Flames, obviously, they have short memories!

[singfreedom]

You can't tell me that any conservative alive would trade his and his family's security for an "ideal". That sounds as "warm and fuzzy" as the liberal drivel.

The truth is our constitution is not a "suicide pact" we have the right to protect ourselves. This is a concept proposed by Abraham Lincoln (when he suspended habeas corpus) and not original to me, unfortunately.

[truth_seeker]

"How will we know when this war is over? With WWII we knew when Germans and Japanese surrendered."

On Sept. 20, 2001 Bush addressed a joint session of Congress (also attended by members of the USSC, cabinet secretaries, top military officers, etc.)

He said it would be a long war, secretive, complicated. (my words, his were better).

As a practical matter, I expect you and I will recognize an end, if we live that long.

If you haven't done so, I suggest studying the history of islam. They have been waging Jihad for nearly 1400 years. Here is a website posted by an Iranian.

http://www.historyofjihad.org/

[devolve]

Here you go -

[Despot of the Delta]

The biggest question of the PA that needs answering, who wrote it and why?

[IrishRainy]

Very cogent thoughts...thanks for sharing them.

And you didn't feel the need to call us "jerkweeds" in the process, which I also appreciated.

[singfreedom]

Bingo! It always makes me wonder what these persons might have been up to that they don't want anyone to know about. Me? They'll hear me kissing my hubby over the phone and planning Christmas dinner with my sisters thru e-mail. Big thrill.

[Prodigal Son]

Screw the Patriot Act.

[Robert A Cook PE]

You're the one that's hysterical. There are a few provisions that need to be looked at carefully; like sneak and peek.... think of these provisions in the hands of Hillary, and you might have a different hysterical reaction.

Doesn't matter.

HILLARY abused her IRS "powers" (which ARE illegal) by regularly auditing conservative individuals and groups who opposed her.

HILLARY abused her (illegal and non-existant) power in the executive branch to take lands into federal power, and to take money from foreign powers, and to directly use federal government money to influence businesses with (her) foreign connections.

SO, WHAT SHE DID WAS ILLEGAL ALREADY. Now, what part of the Patriot act would she be able to "break" that she hadn't already broken?

[Tarkin]

Murkowski and Hagel are RINOs, but Sununu and Craig are generally very reliable conservatives (both getting ACU ratings over 90). Also note that the real RINOs (that is Chafee, Arlen the Magic Bullet, two witches from Maine etc.) voted for cloture.

[Tarkin]

Craig is one of the most conservative members of the Senate. What is going on in HIS mind?

Sununu as well, BTW, anyone would like to guess how Barry Goldwater would vote on this?

[Alia]

Politics is an interesting animal. It's important always to have some of your own team in the rear, as opposed, to upfront with the rest.

[Alia]

I find this discourse on "what's a conservative" to be highly fascinating. If I were of a suspicious nature, and I am, I detect in this forum an intent to "seize" and rework the "what is a conservative" meaning.

in the old days, conservative meant restricting government intrusion into the public's private lives

Public usually means, here in the US, and with no ill-intent being devised for destructing American Institutions. Government, being one of those.

[ohhhh]

[The four Republican rebels -- Larry E. Craig (Idaho), Chuck Hagel (Neb.), John E. Sununu (N.H.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) -- have joined...]

This is the problem of the neo liberal republican party, so many pols are liberal democrats disguised as conservatives.
You know them by their fruits.

[Alia]

If he is as conservative as many are saying, then for him to stand against the renewal tells me something which I haven't yet seen posted. Liberals have for too long claimed to have the "ownership" and been the "vanguards" of civil liberties. That's a lie. Great article at frontpagemag on the ACLU today, for an example. Bottomline, some Republicans (outside of Hagel, perhaps) are inside the tent in re "standing for civil liberties". I do think the Patriot Act will be renewed. That's my take.

[EmilyGeiger]

Thanks for posting this. I will be writing them and the RNC(who is continually asking me to renew my membership) to let them know how angry I am with them.