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Math, science not all kids should know
Capital Times ^ | 12-18-05 | Dave Zweifel

Posted on 12/18/2005 11:51:04 AM PST by SJackson

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To: old republic

Guess that's what made all three of my children so dangerous in H.S. and College because I tought them those things and more. It's a little scarry when a 16 YO can not only hold their own using facts to dabate a H.S. "History" teacher but win. Even scarrier when a 19 YO can do the same thing to "Full Professor" in college.

I LIKE IT!


21 posted on 12/18/2005 12:35:14 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: SandRat
Today they have to include classes like CPR (creating positive relationships) which is total Barbra Streisand...
22 posted on 12/18/2005 12:39:11 PM PST by Kimmers
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To: SJackson

Paraphrasing an old Soviet-era saw:

In America's government-run schools (aka, "public schools"), the students pretend to learn and the teachers pretend to teach.

Objective measures of performance have fallen in every academic area. This article refers to the decline in science and math. The following link documents the decline in basic literacy,
http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL/PDF/2006470.PDF .

That report's findings on the literacy of college graduates is even more shocking. The study addresses three types of literacy -- prose, document, and quantitative. The percentages of American college graduates that rate as proficient in these categories are as follows:

Prose 31% (down from 40% in 1992)
Document 25% (down from 37% in 1992)
Quantitative 31% (unchanged from 1992)

The standards for a "proficient" score on these tests are pretty low. They are more like reading the newspaper and balancing a checkbook than reading Kant and solving differential equations.

Other studies have documented similar performance declines in history and civics. Maybe fine arts education has not suffered as much, but there are relatively few serious careers for painters and musicians.

Decade after decade the government-run schools have wasted the time of American students and the treasure of the American people. Yet we still hear people say they "believe in public education".


23 posted on 12/18/2005 12:39:47 PM PST by RBroadfoot
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To: SJackson
High school graduates need to understand the history and workings of American government and why they need to participate in a healthy debate of ideas and beliefs if that form of government is to survive ... All too many young people don't know who their representatives are or how they got to be where they are and, frankly, couldn't care less to know.

All they need to learn is that it's all "Bush's fault" and become DemocRats.

24 posted on 12/18/2005 12:44:42 PM PST by manwiththehands ("Merry Christmas .... and Happy New Year ... you can take your seat now ...")
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To: SandRat

Civics - US Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights -- and all of the words not Cherry picked phrases.

Amen to that. When schools teach Constitution today they add things in the Constitution that aren't even there and people just accept it. The false principle of Separation of Church and State. People should be taught the Constitution, not what some liberal court has decided about it. That goes for law schools too. In the 19th century people were taught to be lawyers by reading treatises on the Constitution. Now they are taught case law. In other words they are taught that whatever the Court says about the Constitution must be true. (This is obviously not true because the court overturns its own decisions). Just because there is a precedent doesn't mean that it is correct. People should take their Constitution back and not just let the courts tell them what their constitution is.


25 posted on 12/18/2005 12:45:14 PM PST by old republic
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To: SandRat

Public schools don't teach they indoctrinate.


26 posted on 12/18/2005 12:48:18 PM PST by old republic
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To: stripes1776

**The schools don't need more math and science classes. What the schools need to do is teach competently the math and science they are now teaching.**

Bravo!! Go to the head of the class! :D


27 posted on 12/18/2005 12:49:16 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: RBroadfoot

My history students often railed at an algebra requirement. I justified it aying we wanted them to learn to think logically. By the way, 80% of history teachers neither majored or minored in history while history PhD's are largely unemployable.


28 posted on 12/18/2005 12:49:31 PM PST by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: SJackson

yanno, in those schools which have actually enforced discipline and bothered to actually TEACH, kids have managed to learn math, literacy, linguistics, science, logic, civics, and history with a fairly high rate of success.


29 posted on 12/18/2005 12:52:53 PM PST by King Prout (many accuse me of being overly literal... this would not be a problem if many were not under-precise)
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To: SandRat
Good start, but kids should learn how to WRITE as well as read, and a bit of public speaking won't hurt.

For your number 6 (music or art appreciation) can we make that a general choice of something in the fine and performing arts line to include dance and drama?

Did you purposely not list foreign languages?

In civics can we include general life skills, meaning things young Americans should know so as not to become burdens on society? Basic skills (to include basic safely) in areas such as computers, auto maintenance, household maintenance, cooking and nutrition, sewing, child care, personal financial management, and survival (how to survive 3-5 days without electricity if a natural disaster strikes). Yes, these topics can easily be taught at home as long someone knows the subjects in the first place. However, people die every year because they mix dangerous household cleaning chemicals or because they run a generator with insufficient oxygen, and they lose a lot of money because they don't know when to have their oil changed or how to compare finance charges.
30 posted on 12/18/2005 12:56:12 PM PST by StayAt HomeMother
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To: SandRat
It's a little scarry when a 16 YO can not only hold their own using facts to debate a H.S. "History" teacher but win.

Some teachers are very threatened by a kid like that. They can't stand being shown up by a student.

31 posted on 12/18/2005 12:57:00 PM PST by Huntress (Possession really is nine tenths of the law.)
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To: ClaudiusI

Isn't that how the Mexicans do it?


32 posted on 12/18/2005 12:57:36 PM PST by monkapotamus
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To: AZLiberty
Authors read include Vergil, Augustine, Aquinas, Dante, Cervantes, Shakespeare, Descartes, Hegel, Marx, and Dostoyevsky.

And where are Hume and Smith?

33 posted on 12/18/2005 12:59:05 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (When the First Amendment was written dueling was common and legal. Think about it.)
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To: old republic

These words from the Declaration of Independence should put people's understanding of our Constitution and our rights into greater perspective.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security --


34 posted on 12/18/2005 12:59:50 PM PST by old republic
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To: AZLiberty

**(everyone takes it, no electives):**

Drama required? I wouldn't require it. There's enough drama in real life.

Art required? I'm a steel sculptor, and I wouldn't force anyone to take a course on art.

Required: Basic auto mechanics. It might just save a life.


35 posted on 12/18/2005 1:01:46 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: SJackson; kingu; ClaudiusI; ClearCase_guy; EGPWS; Bob; MNJohnnie; Kimmers; old republic; ...

Let's not have too much of that dangerous math, which helps students develop skills in logic and critical thinking, and helps them learn how to make their own intelligent decisions. Better to have more political opinion shoved down their throats where the teachers can tell them what to think.

Yes, I knowing history/government/civics is important, but the way it's being *taught* in many places today is little more than indoctrination.


36 posted on 12/18/2005 1:03:38 PM PST by generally
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To: stripes1776

You make excellent points. I do think we need more math and science classes, but FIRST, we need to teach competently what we have now. One problem with current teaching theories is that learning must always be *fun*. The "educators" who hold this belief rail against having students memorize their addition and multiplication tables because that's not *fun*. They don't want flash cards or drills or timed tests. But it's amazing that some of these same math-phobes who argue against math drills want to see the football and basketball players running wind sprints and play drills.


37 posted on 12/18/2005 1:08:33 PM PST by generally
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To: SJackson

Well, ever since Sex Ed replaced Civics, what could one expect?


38 posted on 12/18/2005 1:18:34 PM PST by thoughtomator (Congrats Iraq!)
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To: generally
Better to have more political opinion shoved down their throats where the teachers can tell them what to think.

It won't happen for this is 2005 and 1984 is far behind us.

Right?

39 posted on 12/18/2005 1:22:17 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: thoughtomator
Well, ever since Sex Ed replaced Civics, what could one expect?

Ahm, more sex and less civics?

Did I win?

40 posted on 12/18/2005 1:23:44 PM PST by EGPWS
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