Posted on 12/17/2005 8:39:05 AM PST by Mr. Blonde
HE MADE millions as a businessman, saved the scandal-plagued 2002 Winter Olympics, appeals to social conservatives, is liked by moderates, boasts chiselled good looks and has been a successful Republican governor in one of America’s most liberal states. In Mitt Romney, the Massachusetts Governor who all but threw his hat into the 2008 presidential race yesterday, Republicans have the almost perfect candidate. Except for one potential problem: Mr Romney is a Mormon.
After announcing that he would not be seeking a second term as Massachusetts governor, a widely anticipated move that clears the way for a 2008 White House bid, Mr Romney implicitly posed a fascinating political question: can a Mormon win enough votes to become President of the United States?
Mr Romney, whom analysts on both sides of the political divide say will be a serious contender in 2008, was elected governor of Massachusetts — one of the bluest of Democrat blue states — as a social moderate. In the past year, however, he has changed his stance on social issues important to religious conservatives, the base of the Republican Party that wields enormous influence in the Republican primary race. Mr Romney once said that abortion should be “safe and legal”, but now opposes it. He denounced the decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Court to legalise gay marriage. Calling himself a “red speck in a blue state”, he has emphasised socially conservative positions on the death penalty, stem-cell research and birth control.
But Manuel Miranda, head of the Third Branch Conference, an alliance of conservative groups, said that many evangelicals view Mormonism — the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints — as a cult. Mr Miranda said that in 2000 he worked for Orrin Hatch, the Utah senator and a Mormon, during his unsuccessful bid for the Republican nomination. “Hatch had a poll done. He found that over 60 per cent of Americans would not vote for a Mormon.”
Richard Cizik, of the National Association of Evangelicals, said that Mormons were not Christians, and that profound doctrinal divisions would shape reactions to Mr Romney as a candidate for the White House. The view among evangelicals might change if Mr Romney’s main opponent is Rudy Giuliani, the former New York Mayor, who is socially moderate and supports abortion.
Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster, believes that Mr Romney’s religion will not be a significant issue. His biggest problem, Mr Luntz said, is that he comes from Massachusetts. Although he balanced the state’s budget, lowered taxes and improved education, “the last time Massachusetts produced a Republican candidate was never”.
Mr Romney may also face the charge of being a “flip-flopper” — an accusation that did so much damage to the last presidential candidate from Massachusetts with impossibly thick hair: John Kerry.
The last president to come from Massachusetts was John Kennedy, who successfully overcame concerns about being the first Roman Catholic in the White House.
Mr Romney can also take encouragement from the experience of his Mormon father, George Romney, who was Governor of Michigan. His 1968 presidential bid imploded after he said that he had been “brainwashed” into supporting the Vietnam War. “But until then,” Steve Hess, of the Brookings Institution, said, “there was no question he could have been elected.”
Just remember your statement when you stand before the Judge, oh he who "...is ever learning, but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth..."
"...If Ms. Rice were to move from "mildly pro-choice" to "mildly pro-life" (i.e., come out foresquare for overturning Roe, one way or other, and then leave the issue to the political branches), a lot of us pro-lifers could support her, some even enthusiastically..."
I suspect she would be attacked rather rabidly by conservatives who would view her as being too socially liberal.
I admire her greatly, but mostly for her defense or international relations positions.
Dear rlmorel,
Well, I converse with a lot of us rabid pro-lifers here at FR, and with other rabid pro-lifers in my non-virtual life.
Most would be inclined to accept her candidacy, some enthusiastically, if she were to move about three inches to the right on the issue of abortion.
sitetest
" However, as Mormons are unfortunately aware because they also claim to read the Bible, they already know better."
I have never met a Mormon, and I have talked with plenty, who has been well versed in the Bible.
Just curious...where do you live?
Why not, they elected Nixon who was a Quaker.
Oops...nevermind...the obvious step of checking your profile escapes me...duh!
How do you folks hear about Romney out there?
What do you want to know?
It wouldn't be advised to listen to people like peyton randolph.
You want to know what its about? OK. It has nothing at all to do with magic.
Lets start with a real explaination, not the ignorant types being spewed here.
First, lets establish this bit of background information: are we saved my grace or works? In Mormon theology we are saved by the grace of Christ. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it.
Mormons believe Christ is the savior of mankind so that we can each return to live in Heaven.
Christ also has another role other than just being The Savior. He is also our Judge.
Last day, we all die, we go up there, someone is going to Judge who is going where. That is Christ.
Those people who say "I am already saved" believe that Christ has already made and passed judgement on them. Mormons believe that a full blown judgement doesn't happen until the end for 99.999% of all people.
With this being the case, Christ as our Judge has the perogative to say who enters Heaven and who does not. It is no one else's responsibility. He does tell us though HOW He will judge though.
Hence, Mormons believe that Christ will judge us all of our works, good or bad and He will make the call. Hence, Mormons believe that we will be judged according to our living of the commandments of God that we get in the scriptures, etc. So, in other words you have to be obedient to the laws and covenants because it is by these we are judged. We have to be obedient in order to recieve Grace because Christ can extend Grace to whomever He wants to and deny it as well based on His perfect knowlege of things.
Now a word on covenants. Baptism is a covenant between man and God. When one gets baptised God sets the rules and we agree to abide them. We are not negotiating with God about which scriptures to follow.
What does all this have to do with 'undergarments'?
Those 'undergarments' are not 'magical', but they are symbolic to the person who wears them. They symbolize the covenants one makes with God. We don't wear them on the outside for everyone to see because our committment to God is an internal affair.
Secondly, it is symbolic to the wearer in other ways.
See Gen 3:21
When Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden God gave them a covenant along with and in connection to clothes.
The symbolism being that without A)Christ and B)our Covenants man is naked and nothing. One cannot be saved without a Savior and without Covenants.
Hence the wearing of the 'undergarments' is a symbol to the wearer and the wearer only that he or she must at all times be true to God.
Too bad Tom Cruise chose Scientology instead of your cult.
Try this Mormon story on for size.
LA Times Cover Story, 12/01/01: Mormons who quit church ostracized
It even includes discussion of the sacred undergarments.
Want to know more about the undergarments and other whacky beliefs, Google the words "Mormon" and "cult."
I am still waiting for a relevant response, better yet, no need to bother. You've been exposed.
"I have never been able to come up with an objective definition of "cult" other than a religion that a given person doesn't like."
To the Jews and Romans, early Christianity must have seemed like a "cult."
How are the Mormons more separate from society than Amish or Hassids????
I mean, if a Mormon is the governor of the state of Massachusetts, that's about as involved in society as you can get.
Why not? We've elected a moron for a president.
This quote in the article kicked off this discussion:
"But Manuel Miranda, head of the Third Branch Conference, an alliance of conservative groups, said that many evangelicals view Mormonism — the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints — as a cult."
You're right, different groups will tend to call other groups cults. However, as to the statement in the article, see my post #120 for a start of how Evangelical Christians define a cult. Evangelical Christians do not generally use the word cult when referring to other world religions.
Thank Smith that you've got your magical undergarments so that you don't have to worry about exposure.
I agree.
They're not more seperate -- at least in the Mormon manstream -- we were discussing the attributes of cults.
So then the Church of LDS is not a cult.
I don't believe it is. I've known many, many mormons both non-practicing and religious, professionally and socially. They don't seem cult-like to me.
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