Law Professor Crosses Evolution Battle Lines: Conservative leader sides with ACLU

The Fulton County Daily Report (via Law.com) ^ | 12-15-2005 | Greg Land

[Lurking Libertarian]

The fight over how public schools should teach the theory of evolution is usually expected to fall along familiar battle lines.

Thus, at the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals today, lawyers for the liberal American Civil Liberties Union will argue that school board members from conservative Cobb County violated the Constitution when they ordered that stickers questioning evolution's validity be placed in high school biology books.

But this case defies simple labels for Georgia State University law professor L. Lynn Hogue, who has led the conservative Southeastern Legal Foundation, worked for the disbarment of President Clinton and proposed a Georgia law that would allow the display of the Ten Commandments in government buildings.

Hogue signed on to an amicus brief filed on behalf of Georgia Citizens for Integrity in Science Education, which supports the ACLU side of the case.

"I'm sympathetic with their cause," said Hogue, who also has pushed for gay marriage bans, fought Atlanta's domestic partnership ordinance and battled the University of Georgia's affirmative action program.

"From my perspective as a conservative, I think science education is important," he added. "And I'm not religiously sympathetic to anti-evolutionists, who I think are lunatics."

[Senator Bedfellow]

Why, you practically took the words right out of my mouth :)

[andysandmikesmom]

Well, that was the first time I have really looked at any of Jack Chicks 'funnies'....I notice on the Noahs Flood comic strip, he has the young land dinosaurs entering the ark...first time I ever heard of dinosaurs entering the ark...I have heard some folks, 'acquaintances' of mine, tell me that dinosaurs never did exist in the first place...that all the dinosaur bones that are found, were really planted by the devil, to deceive man...(of course, I imagine not many people put forth this particular idea, but still, its one I have heard)....

But dinosaurs, living side by side with Noah, and then entering the ark to be saved from the flood, is a new one on me...

Thanks for the Jack Chick 'funnies'...

[BuglerTex]

Thanks for the ping. But I like to think of a different sort of ramp, as well.

[BuglerTex]

Kind of like doing Just a Closer Walk with Thee in 7/4 time, something has to be more than a little loose.

[Quark2005]

Any bets on how long before THIS professor, a card carrying conservative if there ever were one, gets his face beaten by a couple of "good ol' boys" drivin' a pickup truck...

Hopefully, as a conservative, he exercises his 2nd Amendment rights to defend himself in such an altercation.

[Right Wing Professor]

"The Court's focus should be, first and foremost, on the neutral language of the Sticker itself, together with the extensive evolutionary curriculum to which it is attached.

Sure. It should be considered in isolation as a tiny autonomous brown piece of living matter trying to get into the tent, not the nose of a camel.

[PatrickHenry]

Beware, kiddies: This book is evil!

It's only a sticker. It's only a sticker!!

[RadioAstronomer]

Now that tract sure is a joy (NOT). The little girl seems to be thrilled with her ride at the same time as her daddy is tossed into the lake of fire for ever.

Disgusting.

[Senator Bedfellow]

Apparently that train-wreck of thought has done left the station, insofar as I've recently encountered someone on another thread making almost precisely the same argument.

[jennyp]

conservative-evos-just-wont-go-away PLACEMARKER

[Stultis]

Goessling said this is a case in which reasonable minds can disagree. "This is not a separation-of-church-and-state case," she said. "This is a case allowing competing theories to be taught. ... The sticker is a simple declaratory statement that does not favor or disfavor evolution as a scientific theory."

**************

This is my position on the issue as well.

It seems to me that Goessling's position is contradictory. She also said, "It appears that, on a daily basis, we're bombarded with attacks on Christian expression."

If the stickers are conceived as a response to some kind of presumed "attack on Christian expression," then they are obviously somehow themselves a defense of "Christian expression." But this contradicts what Goessling says in the portion you quote, that it really has nothing to do with religion and it's only about competing scientific theories!

[trisham]

Goessling said this is a case in which reasonable minds can disagree. "This is not a separation-of-church-and-state case," she said. "This is a case allowing competing theories to be taught. ... The sticker is a simple declaratory statement that does not favor or disfavor evolution as a scientific theory."

**************

This is my position on the issue as well.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What are the "competing theories"?

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Sorry. I was referring to ID (Intelligent Design) and Creationism.

[trisham]

But this contradicts what Goessling says in the portion you quote, that it really has nothing to do with religion and it's only about competing scientific theories!

***************

Not exactly. Her words are: "This is a case allowing competing theories to be taught. ..."

[Dimensio]

So what are the "competing theories"?

[Dimensio]

Sorry. I was referring to ID (Intelligent Design) and Creationism.

What do these theories state? What do each purport to explain, what evidence leads to these explanations, what tests can be done on these "theories" and what hypothetical observations would falsify each of these "theories"?

[trisham]

Please see my response with post #72.

[trisham]

What do these theories state? What do each purport to explain, what evidence leads to these explanations, what tests can be done on these "theories" and what hypothetical observations would falsify each of these "theories"?

**************

I do believe I've seen you on many a previous thread, so I must conclude you are being disingenuous.

Would you like to make a point?

[ml1954]

"From my perspective as a conservative, I think science education is important," he added. "And I'm not religiously sympathetic to anti-evolutionists, who I think are lunatics."

Sounds like he must have hung out on Crevo threads on FR for awhile.

I was 'religiously sympathetic' several months ago, before I started hanging out on these threads. Now I agree with him.

[Junior]

He's basically saying ID is not a theory. It isn't even a testable hypothesis. You can't call it a "competing theory" when it can't even find its way to the same arena.

[trisham]

He's basically saying ID is not a theory. It isn't even a testable hypothesis. You can't call it a "competing theory" when it can't even find its way to the same arena.

******************

Thanks. I do have faith, however, that Dimensio can speak for himself. :)