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National Review Online -- The Corner ^ | 12/13/2005 | Rich Lowry

Posted on 12/13/2005 10:12:21 AM PST by IonInsights

This New York Times story makes it sound like it is still up-in-the-air whether there will be a deal on McCain. That's not the buzz I'm hearing from both opponents and supporters of the amendment. The word is that a deal is very close and it will represent a near total capitulation by the administration. As of this moment I'm hearing that it might not even include a retroactive immunity for anyone who participated in the soon-to-be-banned practices. This is how badly the administration is losing--or, has lost--this debate: it will be lucky to protect our own interrogators from potential prosecution.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; lowry; mccain; mccain2008; torcher; torture; torturebill
Say it aint so.
1 posted on 12/13/2005 10:12:21 AM PST by IonInsights
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To: IonInsights
This amendment is irrelevent. We'll still torture them or farm out the work.

This is all about making Congress feel good about itself.

2 posted on 12/13/2005 10:14:11 AM PST by zarf (The BCS sucks.)
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To: IonInsights

Then again. Lowry and his sources are often WRONG.


3 posted on 12/13/2005 10:14:43 AM PST by pissant
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To: IonInsights
As of this moment I'm hearing that it might not even include a retroactive immunity for anyone who participated in the soon-to-be-banned practices.

Does the phrase "ex post facto" mean anything to the author?

4 posted on 12/13/2005 10:37:27 AM PST by RebelBanker (If you can't do something smart, do something right.)
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To: zarf
We'll still torture them or farm out the work.

Maybe, but that's stupid because torture yields unreliable intelligence.

5 posted on 12/13/2005 10:39:27 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: zarf

"This amendment is irrelevent. We'll still torture them or farm out the work."

I beg to differ. Regardless of whether we farm out the work, it will still embolden our enemies, make us look gutless, and send a message to our soldiers/agents that our government will abandon them in situations where hard decisions need to be made out in the field. I don't know about you, but I don't want the average soldier/agent to live in fear of being prosecuted just for doing his job.

This amendment is madness.


6 posted on 12/13/2005 10:44:02 AM PST by Mordacious
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To: zarf

its not irrelevant if it extends US rights to these captured people, and allows the ACLU and their friends on the court to file case after case against the US government, and perhaps against individual agents or military persons.


7 posted on 12/13/2005 10:47:07 AM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview
Well, I guess we might as well roll up our country and give it to al queada.

McCain was tortured and gave up info during Vietnam war.

Just double damn.

8 posted on 12/13/2005 10:52:45 AM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: IonInsights

McLame, this is our country, not exclusively yours. STFU!!!!!!!


9 posted on 12/13/2005 10:54:03 AM PST by gathersnomoss
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To: Alter Kaker
"Maybe, but that's stupid because torture yields unreliable intelligence."

Folks might want to take a look at the actual wording of this amendment. It bans all "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" treatment. In other words, it bans anything that would yield any kind of intelligence at all. We'll pretty much be left with serving them blueberry scones and saying, "Sir, will you tell us where your terrorist friends are hiding? Pleeeease?"

10 posted on 12/13/2005 10:58:45 AM PST by Mordacious
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To: pbrown

the problem is, the vote on this wasn't even close. how many republicans opposed it the first time it came up? very few as I recall. vetoing the defense bill is not a viable option, so the administration doesn't have much left to fight this with.

it could be a issue against McCain in the 2008 primaries, but I think George Allen voted for this also. right now, this is a no lose issue for McCain politically.


11 posted on 12/13/2005 10:58:51 AM PST by oceanview
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To: Mordacious
It bans all "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" treatment.

Is all interrogation "cruel, inhuman, or degrading?" I don't think so. Moreover, while I agree that you get more information out of a suspect when you're pulling his fingernails off, the reliability is going to be extremely suspect.

12 posted on 12/13/2005 11:01:35 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Mordacious

and that vagueness is what the left wants, so the courts get to decide, which means every terrorist not held at the Ritz Carlton is being "tortured".

public support is with the president on this, but the white house has failed to articulate a rebuttal, they are always on defense on this issue, and in politics - when you are on defense, you are losing.


14 posted on 12/13/2005 11:06:36 AM PST by oceanview
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To: Alter Kaker

"Is all interrogation "cruel, inhuman, or degrading?" I don't think so."

Yes, but you are not one of the liberal judges who will be called upon to "interpret" the meaning of that phrase. Just imagine what the 9th circuit could do with it.


15 posted on 12/13/2005 11:08:00 AM PST by Mordacious
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To: Mordacious

yup.


16 posted on 12/13/2005 11:13:36 AM PST by oceanview
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To: Mordacious

with respect to the top tier AQ people - we won't bother capturing them and holding them as prisoners. we will either kill them, or capture them and interrogate them vigourosly for a brief time (couple of days) and then kill them to avoid any issues regarding their detention. what else can we do? sure, we could farm it out to third party countries, but even that has its limits.


17 posted on 12/13/2005 11:18:03 AM PST by oceanview
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To: Mordacious
Yes, but you are not one of the liberal judges who will be called upon to "interpret" the meaning of that phrase.

Granted. But the answer to liberal judges isn't eliminating the law, it's appointing conservative judges.

18 posted on 12/13/2005 11:55:15 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: oceanview
it could be a issue against McCain in the 2008 primaries,

I hope so.

19 posted on 12/13/2005 12:06:52 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: zarf

I was under the impression this wouldn't effect terrorist only prisoners of war.


20 posted on 12/13/2005 12:08:41 PM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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