Posted on 12/13/2005 10:12:21 AM PST by IonInsights
This New York Times story makes it sound like it is still up-in-the-air whether there will be a deal on McCain. That's not the buzz I'm hearing from both opponents and supporters of the amendment. The word is that a deal is very close and it will represent a near total capitulation by the administration. As of this moment I'm hearing that it might not even include a retroactive immunity for anyone who participated in the soon-to-be-banned practices. This is how badly the administration is losing--or, has lost--this debate: it will be lucky to protect our own interrogators from potential prosecution.
This is all about making Congress feel good about itself.
Then again. Lowry and his sources are often WRONG.
Does the phrase "ex post facto" mean anything to the author?
Maybe, but that's stupid because torture yields unreliable intelligence.
"This amendment is irrelevent. We'll still torture them or farm out the work."
I beg to differ. Regardless of whether we farm out the work, it will still embolden our enemies, make us look gutless, and send a message to our soldiers/agents that our government will abandon them in situations where hard decisions need to be made out in the field. I don't know about you, but I don't want the average soldier/agent to live in fear of being prosecuted just for doing his job.
This amendment is madness.
its not irrelevant if it extends US rights to these captured people, and allows the ACLU and their friends on the court to file case after case against the US government, and perhaps against individual agents or military persons.
McCain was tortured and gave up info during Vietnam war.
Just double damn.
McLame, this is our country, not exclusively yours. STFU!!!!!!!
Folks might want to take a look at the actual wording of this amendment. It bans all "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" treatment. In other words, it bans anything that would yield any kind of intelligence at all. We'll pretty much be left with serving them blueberry scones and saying, "Sir, will you tell us where your terrorist friends are hiding? Pleeeease?"
the problem is, the vote on this wasn't even close. how many republicans opposed it the first time it came up? very few as I recall. vetoing the defense bill is not a viable option, so the administration doesn't have much left to fight this with.
it could be a issue against McCain in the 2008 primaries, but I think George Allen voted for this also. right now, this is a no lose issue for McCain politically.
Is all interrogation "cruel, inhuman, or degrading?" I don't think so. Moreover, while I agree that you get more information out of a suspect when you're pulling his fingernails off, the reliability is going to be extremely suspect.
and that vagueness is what the left wants, so the courts get to decide, which means every terrorist not held at the Ritz Carlton is being "tortured".
public support is with the president on this, but the white house has failed to articulate a rebuttal, they are always on defense on this issue, and in politics - when you are on defense, you are losing.
"Is all interrogation "cruel, inhuman, or degrading?" I don't think so."
Yes, but you are not one of the liberal judges who will be called upon to "interpret" the meaning of that phrase. Just imagine what the 9th circuit could do with it.
yup.
with respect to the top tier AQ people - we won't bother capturing them and holding them as prisoners. we will either kill them, or capture them and interrogate them vigourosly for a brief time (couple of days) and then kill them to avoid any issues regarding their detention. what else can we do? sure, we could farm it out to third party countries, but even that has its limits.
Granted. But the answer to liberal judges isn't eliminating the law, it's appointing conservative judges.
I hope so.
I was under the impression this wouldn't effect terrorist only prisoners of war.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.