Hollowed bullet easy to get & hard to survive

NY Daily News ^ | 12/12/05 | ALISON GENDAR and DAVE GOLDINER

[HairOfTheDog]

Also true other places... but I think the above post was meant to be about NYC.

[Travis McGee]

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

"In fact, there is no reason for civilians to have handguns, period. Our citizens will be far safer, when only the police have handguns."

[clee1]

Uh huh.

One at a time, carefully aimed.

[processing please hold]

Thanks. I'll go have a look.

[Kenton]

OK. On one hand, the authors claim "Cops favor using the hollow-point bullets because they are less likely to pass through a target and ricochet into a fellow cop or bystander." and "They are less likely to penetrate the intended target and hit a bystander," said Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne."

So one would logically deduce that this is a good thing, right? Apparently unless you are a civilian. Apparently, civilians would be restricted to what they author refers to as "regular, "full-metal jacket" bullets". So apparently if you're a civilian, it's OK to shoot through the wall into the neighbor's apartment during a home invasion, I guess.

The idiots also muse "But they want their public sale banned to keep them out of the hands of thugs like Enchautegui's alleged killers, Steven Armento and Lillo Brancato...." and a further lines further down say "Anyone with a gun permit can buy the hollow-points in a gun shop. They also are readily available on the black market."

Which begs the question: Although you may have inconvenienced the homeowner described above by restricting him to military ammo (a point we'll visit later), what about things like Armento and Brancato? Do ya really think guys like these will say "shucks, no more hollowpoints down at Walmart, we're out of luck", or do you think that maybe, just maybe, these two upstanding Democrats (OK, I just threw that in) will just head on down to the old "black market" you referred to?

But I digress. You claim "The main difference between hollow-point and regular, "full-metal jacket" bullets is that the hollow-points flatten on impact and expand inside a target". Bravo. It shows that with a ,lot of repetition, you can get something right.

The author then goes on to say "An on-duty cop's bulletproof vest would likely provide the same protection from a hollow-point as a regular bullet."

Well, the fact is, a hollow-point is designed to crush on impact, and a ballistic vest will stop one quite effectively. That cannot always be said of full metal jacket ammunition, which is designed for the military, and will often penetrate body armor.

So I'm sure all the cops thank you for recommending "armor piercing ammunition" for potential cop killers.

OK, I know this is "GunStuff 101" to Freepers, but I swear, one day one of these press weenies is gonna take a class in gun basics and revolutionize mass media as we know it.

[xusafflyer]

I think the article is about New York law.

Before they were banned in California, I bought my dad (LAPD, now retired) a few boxes of "Black Talons" rounds for Christmas. The cops he worked with loved them.

[Redleg Duke]

Hollowpoints can be made with a drill. It isn't the tool, it is the user, but arresting criminals is just so...sigh...judgemental!

[houeto]

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Boiling Blood Bump

[ApplegateRanch]

"Our mission is to stop violent felons,"

LIAR

Your mission is to investigate crimes, and then track down and capture for prosecution those who have already committed violent felonies.

Sometimes you get lucky, and arrive in time to interrupt the criminal.

ITMT, the victim needs every advantage they can muster, to survive.

[green iguana]

Somewhere in a drawer in my house is a box of Black Talons.

And they are doing what good in a drawer in your house?

[processing please hold]

Just read it. Man oh man.

[Kozak]

"Our mission is to stop violent felons," said Patrolmen's Benevolent Association President Patrick Lynch. "There is no reason for anyone else to have that ability."

Oh REALLY officer?
Do you plan on being a personal escort for me and my family. We can set you up on the sofa in the living room for night duty too.

[ApplegateRanch]

OK, I know this is "GunStuff 101" to Freepers, but I swear, one day one of these press weenies is gonna take a class in gun basics and revolutionize mass media as we know it.

No such luck. They would march him to the Editor's Desk, and to the sound of Muffled Presses playing in the back ground, Blue Pencil his name from the rolls; break his Pen, cancel his Press Card, Format his Laptop, stamp "REJECTED" on his forehead, and toss him out onto the street.

[FreedomPoster]

I'm pretty sure you are correct, and that jacketed bullets are required under Geneva.

[Tenacious 1]

Ahh. You are right. It was just in NYC.

[JustAnotherOkie]

How bizzare that a hollow point is used in a murder then they should be banned from all applications. This is typical of the kneejerk reactions that brought us DDT and handgun bans in MA. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1539551/posts

Hollow points have been around forever. They essentially let the bullet disipate it's energy inside the target.

Almost all hunting rounds are hollow points. They are also the bullets used for home defense. Frangables are better for that application but most people don't understand that. In home defense you don't want bullets going through walls and such.

[ApplegateRanch]

Was the officer not wearing his vest?

No.

He was off duty, asleep at home, and was awakened around 5 AM by the sound of breaking glass next door.

He was shot once, motally, .357 in the chest; but still managed to 4 or 5 into the gunman, and 2 into the second perp before he died.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

"The real purpose of jacketed bullets used by the military is to wound the enemy. It ties up several others to care for a wounded. A dead enemy can be forgotten."

Actually, it's the other way around. Hollow, or soft point bullets cause debilitating injuries to legs and arms; while jacketed bullets would pass through, relatively cleanly. Many thousands of amputations in WWI (on both sides) resulted from deliberate targeting of the enemies extremities.

With torso shots, you're right -- jacketed bullets are more likely to be survivable. However, torso shots are generally meant to be kill shots -- for a strategy of causing only injuries, you would target the extremities.

Of course, anything that results in a war being resolved with fewer deaths or debilitating injuries is a good thing.

[Myrddin]

I prefer .357mag 125 gr HydraShok for my self-defense ammo. The "plinking" round is a 127 gr TC (FMJ). Same feel for practice at a much lower cost per round. The Glock 23 is loaded with appropriate HydraShok rounds as well.

[montomike]

I think he was off duty and heard the robbery. He responded like a hero would.