Natural gas soars to new highs as winter storm slams US

Turkish Daily News & AP ^ | December 10, 2005 | En-Lai Yeoh

[verity]

I commend you for a "worst case" scenario budgeting plan. I admire that philosophy.

[reformedliberal]

Have you thought about pellet stoves?

I am North of you in Western WI. We have a 2200 sq ft house, 300 sq ft of it is a storage room and a 3-season porch. The storage room is closed off all year, mainly because it is a mess, and the porch has an insulated glass sliding door between it and the house which I close off on winter nights and some cold days. Porch is set up for a propane stove, but right now, I am using an electric heater when necessary. We also heat 800 sq ft of shop area in another building.

Main heat is propane, w/a wood stove in the house and another one on the main floor (another 800 sq ft) of the shop. We have 2 500-gallon propane tanks and buy 3 cords of firewood/yr.

Total heating costs, which include some heating in Spring/Fall of a 2200 gallon above ground pool, is under $2000. Propane is 3x what is was 10 years ago and the firewood has increased about 40% (it is oak, delivered, split and stacked). Wood for a year, with a face cord left over unless it is a really hard winter is $540-$630. Total electric costs, which are high for the area due to a hot tub, electric stove, some spot electric heaters for ad hoc use, 3 ceiling fans and fans for the forced air propane heat, is around another $1800. We have area a/c in the upper part of the shop, the upper floor of the house (2 rooms in use) and our bedroom. This is an old house, but we have replaced all but 3 of the windows and most of the insulation has been increased.

I keep the house at 64-67 days/55 or so at night.(I like it cool and I do increase the heat to 70 when we have company that is more sensitive to cold) The shop furnace keeps the upper area at 43-45 when we aren't there and it is usually around 67 when we are working. It is a converted barn with high ceilings, so it can be hard to heat. We bought a new furnace 3 years ago which is very efficient. It uses about 300 gallons or less of propane/year.

We don't have NG available at our location, but friends with
NG heat have installed pellet stoves to great effect in both more warmth and less cost in larger homes that are just as old as ours.

I just find a $450/mo budget charge to be excessive. My budget charge for the propane is $160/mo and I do run up a credit from March--October. Interest rates for savings are so low, I don't really mind this money being held by my gas company. It guarantees me a keep-filled status and saves worrying about high bills for the coldest months.

[HOTTIEBOY]

Really? Maybe I meant additives added to make it stink and inpurities taken out. Then stored and pumped out through the lines. Wait. That is refining....

[battletank]

I've never heard of a pellet stove. I'll check it out. Thanks.

[reformedliberal]

There was a run on them in my area this Fall. Then rumors of pellet shortages.

I don't really recall how far out of Chicago your town is, but it might be a good idea to check out Farmers Co-operatives, like Cenex, in the farming communities nearest your suburb. Out here in the boonies, it was the co-ops that had a steady supply of the pellets. If you get one, order your pellets in advance and set up a place to store them. IIRC, they come in 40# bags and people order them by the ton. Folks I know have the bags in their garage.

A good way to check prices is to go to Google and click on Froogle. Search pellet stoves and then after you get an idea of what is available, check the local availability link. You could even go out from your home by one zip code and see if that gives a better price/selection.

[mysterio]

Uh oh, you better watch out! You are going to draw the ire of those that claim the natural gas is a free, competitive market. I mean, we can always choose whether to heat our homes or not. And I bet you one of them wishes the price were $100 per cubic foot, because then we'll have natural gas available when we really need it.

I think I covered most of the arguments there.

[Agdistis]

Good question! :)

[Balding_Eagle]

Thanks for the link. I have relatives who have oil wells, they get the natural gas for free, as part of the contract. Imagine having as much free natural gas as you want, enough to heat even your shop in winter, for free. I've often wondered how the gas they got was 'prepared', ‘cuz it seems to go straight from the wellhead to their place.

Two things:

I was responding to HB refinery mention because I took it to be a backhanded slap at the envirowackos resistance to building refineries. Unlike oil refineries, I think there has been little resistance to NG processing plants.

Second, and I'll grant you that this is a technicality, they aren't refineries, they are processing plants. They've gotten this designation because there is practically no refining, and more of the simple processes to prepare the gas for consumer use

[Balding_Eagle]

Just an FYI in case you were wondering how to calculate conversion costs/savings, NG costs are typically 50% to 60% of LP for the same amount of energy.

LP is made from NG, so I would imagine that the ratio will continue to be stable at that level.

[RightWhale]

It still has to be refined.

Not a lot. Hydrogen needs to be stripped.

[Balding_Eagle]

Damage to orfices? Huh.....do you know from what?

Gases eating at the brass? It would seem that they would need replacing on a regular basis just to be safe.

[ThinkDifferent]

Gasoline prices jump at the least little msm gloom and doom and holiday weekends never mind those barrels were bought months earlier.

When and for how much they were bought is irrelevant. If you sell your house the price is not determined by what you paid for it 10 years ago.

[Balding_Eagle]

I think you are on the money with the wet hydrocarbons part, but wrong on the LP/NG jets.

I've converted my house to NG. Natural gas is deliverd to the orfices at about 1/2 pound pressure, LP at about 3/4 pound pressure. So the regulator and or control valve needs to be either replaced or adjusted to the new lower pressure.

Then the orfice needs to be drilled out to compensate for the lower pressure and the lower BTU per cubic foot of NG.


But you don't need a different orfice, just need to use the right size bit to drill out the existing orfice/

I'm going to finish this weekend by converting my outside grill to NG. No more refilling those stupid tanks. Yippee!!!

[reformedliberal]

It has been over 30 years since I lived w/NG central heating, but 1) I am comfortable, 2)I pay less of my income for heat/hot water than those I know w/NG (and we use loads of hot water in our businesses) and 3) everyone I know w/NG is complaining that they need to keep their thermostats turned way down and they are both cold and paying too much. Most had fuel oil before switching to NG when they were promised much lower bills w/the NG.

My rural electric coop uses a combo of coal, farm-generated methane and wind. The major problem for them is they are supplied the coal by one railroad and are a captive to that line, which has doubled their transportation charges. We are therefore paying a surcharge while trying to get Finegold, Kohl and Kind to support The Railroad Competition Act (H.R. 2047; S.919)

I can't fault the scientific facts, but subjectively, comfort and a lower heating bill means I wouldn't trade. If the superior thermal advantage of NG translated to the same amount of heat for the same price or less, I would think people w/NG wouldn't be complaining.