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Doors close on bus case - Technicality frees Arvada woman who refused to show ID
Rocky Mountain News ^ | December 8, 2005 | Karen Abbott

Posted on 12/08/2005 8:55:00 AM PST by JTN

Federal prosecutors have dropped charges against Deborah Davis, the 53-year-old Arvada woman who refused to show her identification to federal police officers on an RTD bus traveling through the Federal Center in Lakewood.

Davis' supporters, at first jubilant to learn Wednesday morning that she will not be prosecuted, were dismayed to learn hours later that officers of the Federal Protective Service still will ask passengers on the public bus to show their identification. The policy applies to all passengers, including those, as in Davis' case, who are traveling through the Federal Center and not getting off the bus there.

Federal officials said the Davis case was closed because of a technicality involving a problem with a sign at the Federal Center at the time Davis was ticketed. The sign was supposed to inform people that their IDs would be checked.

"The policy hasn't changed," said Jamie Zuieback, a spokeswoman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, of which the Federal Protective Service is a part. "There are no plans to change our procedures."

Davis' lawyers said the battle is likely to continue.

"We're very pleased that they dropped charges against Ms. Davis," said Davis' volunteer lawyer, Gail Johnson, of the Denver law firm Haddon, Morgan, Mueller, Jordan, Mackey & Foreman. "But sign or no sign, she and other Colorado citizens continue to have the constitutional right to travel by public bus without being forced to show identification to federal agents."

"I think if the government is going to insist on continuing to violate the constitutional rights of our citizens, then they're going to find themselves back in court on this one," Johnson said. "We're not interested in the Deborah Davis exception."

Johnson said lawyers from outside Colorado had volunteered to help represent Davis following nationwide publicity about the controversy, and that other bus passengers who refuse to show identification likely could find legal representation as well.

"There are plenty of lawyers in Denver who would be happy to help people," she said.

Davis had been scheduled to appear for arraignment before a U.S. magistrate judge in Denver on Friday. She could not be reached Wednesday for comment.

Bill Scannell, a spokesman for Davis and an activist who has helped publicize other challenges to government identification requests, said a rally outside the courthouse, at 19th and Champa streets, will occur at 8:30 a.m. Friday as planned.

He said Davis will speak during the rally and she and her supporters will ride through the Federal Center on the Regional Transportation District's Bus 100 - the one from which Davis was removed for not showing her ID.

Scannell called it "a victory ride," even after he learned that the policy has not changed.

"My anticipation is that the victory riders will be fully exercising their constitutional rights to travel freely in their own country on a public bus," he said.

Asked if some or all of the riders might refuse to show their IDs to Federal Center police, he said, "I think that's a fair assumption."

Zuieback, the spokeswoman for ICE in Washington, D.C., declined to discuss how federal officers would respond to any such refusals.

"We never speculate about what our response is going to be to a specific situation," she said.

She said the dispute isn't about the bus or its passengers, but about the security of a federal facility.

"It's not a city bus on a city road," Zuieback said. "It is entering a federal facility."

Two RTD buses, the 3 and the 100, pass through the Federal Center several times a day. Thousands of people work at the Federal Center, and thousands more visit some of its agencies, including a popular map sales office and a heavily used depository for genealogical information.

In addition, the road through the Federal Center leads from South Kipling Street on the east side of the facility to the Cold Spring park-n-ride at the Federal Center's northwest corner, a major connecting point for buses bound elsewhere.

RTD officials have said some passengers have complained in the past about the federal police ID checks, which began after the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City. The bus routes through the Federal Center had existed for many years before that.

"It's clearly not an ideal situation for RTD or our passengers, but it is controlled wholly by the federal police at that site," RTD spokesman Scott Reed said Wednesday.

"We hope there will be some resolution of this, and we are doing the best we can to comply with their regulations while providing a long- standing service to our passengers," he said.

Davis, who routinely rode RTD's 100 bus through the Federal Center to get to her job at a small business in Lakewood, said she first showed her ID to federal police who boarded the bus and asked to see all passengers' identification, but it bothered her.

She then spent several days telling the officers she didn't have her ID with her and wasn't getting off the bus in the Federal Center anyway. Officers eventually told her she had to bring her ID or she couldn't ride the bus.

Finally, Davis refused on Sept. 26 to show her ID and was removed from the bus, handcuffed, placed in the back of a patrol car and taken to a police station in the Federal Center. She was later released after officers issued her petty offense tickets.

Zuieback said the ID checks are only one part of "many layers of security." She would not discuss the other parts.

"Looking at that ID, having that initial contact with an individual, does allow us to know that that person is who they say they are," she said.

Asked how officers know a person's ID is genuine, she said, "We have trained professionals doing that work."

Who are you?

• The Federal Protective Service says its policy of checking IDs of bus riders at the Denver Federal Center has not changed. Here are the RTD bus routes that enter the center on at least some runs (some routes vary with time of day):

3 Alameda Crosstown 5x Cold Springs Express 14 West Florida 100 Kipling Crosstown G Golden/Boulder

All pass through the Cold Springs Park-n-Ride at Fourth Avenue and Union Boulevard on the northeast corner of the Federal Center.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: 1984; 4thamendment; aclulist; jackbootlickers; jbts; libertarian; libertarians; surveillance
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To: JeffAtlanta

"They have exactly the same likelihood of stopping a threat. "

Bullshit.


41 posted on 12/08/2005 9:27:50 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
Bullshit.

Brilliant retort.

You do realize that the 9/11 hijackers had IDs, right?

Please tell me how just looking at a person's ID is going to stop any sort of threat.

42 posted on 12/08/2005 9:29:47 AM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: ican'tbelieveit

Not necessary. Checking ID's is fine here. You make it seem that a Fed facility is a Fed facility is a Fed facility. Are they all the same, or perhaps could it be possible that at some an ID check is enough and at others ID check, registration, metal detector, the whole works is called for?????????????????????


43 posted on 12/08/2005 9:30:27 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
Here: you have 1000 people on mass transit and a threat. Scenario 1 - all ID's are checked. Scenario 2, because of people who think like you no ID's are checked, nothing is done. Under which scenario (and please be honest) is there more likelihood of stopping the threat???

What threat? The threat of murder is higher than the threat of terrorism based on the number of people killed in the US each year. Should the police detain EVERYONE on the street in the city and check their IDs so that they have a "more likelihood of stopping the threat" of murder? Perhaps set up checkpoints and roadblocks on all roads leading into and out of all major cities. Is that preferable to "doing nothing"? Or should the police concentrate on the specific threat?

Is there any level of government intrusion into out lives that you wouldn't support? Why is this site called Free Republic and not Secure Republic?

44 posted on 12/08/2005 9:30:31 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: InsureAmerica
Hopefully she now gets it and will show ID next time...

It's obvious that you still don't get it.

45 posted on 12/08/2005 9:30:46 AM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: ican'tbelieveit
I am against wasting taxpayer dollars on a false sense of security measures.

But with this ID check, the guards can gather information on cute chicks and visit them later. They might discover that one isn't who her ID claimed!

46 posted on 12/08/2005 9:31:01 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: FreedomCalls
Why is this site called Free Republic and not Secure Republic?

Any bets on how many posts until someone posts "the Constitution is not a suicide pact"?

47 posted on 12/08/2005 9:32:05 AM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: InsureAmerica

How is it fine? What purpose is it serving? How is it "securing" the facility?


48 posted on 12/08/2005 9:32:57 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit
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To: FreedomCalls

"What threat?"

Someone is or has boarded mass transit with a bomb and is planning to explode it and kill as many people as possible.

Thats what we are talking about her, I think. If you want to keep trying to convolute everything by throwing in anything and everything, more power to you.

Why didn't you mention how many babies die each year in buckets of water as well? I agree, ID checks won't stop that....


49 posted on 12/08/2005 9:33:09 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

You should fight to change the laws, then, if you don't want the requirements for closed facilities to register everyone. In fact, support Law Enforcement--if they are enforcing the law, then they will make every passenger register if this is a closed facility.

Or are you ceding that it's not a closed facility?

Disclaimer: IANAL


50 posted on 12/08/2005 9:33:16 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: untrained skeptic
The prosecutor decided not to prosecute, so she gets a pass on a criminal record even though she broke the law and created a situation that could have been dangerous.

Now you're calling her "dangerous"? Based on what? Did they find a bomb on her?

51 posted on 12/08/2005 9:33:21 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: JTN
Simple answer, shut down the route. Let the buses come in but end the through route and make the facility the end of the line, thus giving good reason to check everyone who enters.

Let everyone else take a longer way around.

Problem solved!

52 posted on 12/08/2005 9:33:58 AM PST by HoustonCurmudgeon (I will not support evil just because "It's the Law.")
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To: InsureAmerica
Let's see. Who should I believe. The Federal Protective Service, or you??

A citizenry that still values liberty will always assume Big Stupid Government is wrong until proven otherwise, because people who can only get government jobs and have no accountability are often wrong, intrusive, abusive and exceed authority granted to them by We The People.

53 posted on 12/08/2005 9:33:59 AM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Gondring
Gee, gridlock...looks like you "get it" now too... :-)

Oh, yeah. I'm all for effective security for federal facilities. Running a public bus through there makes effective security a very difficult problem. It is simply not feasible to do a good job screening that many passengers in a timely manner.

Far better to segregate the through passengers from the facility, and only process the ones who are actually entering. And that can be done while the passengers are on foot, so you can fold/spindle/mutilate them and check all their hand carried items as well.

I'm thinking they could build up the guardhouse on Gate #4, and do a walk-through magnetometer and package screen at that point. The could screen all the mail that enters the facility as well. Then the passengers can get on the shuttle bus inside the gate and proceed to their destinations.

Simple, straightforward and effective. Just because the government has the authority to check all the IDs on the bus (and they do) doesn't mean that is an intelligent policy.

54 posted on 12/08/2005 9:34:02 AM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: FreedomCalls

which trained professional are you talking about.

How do you know this. Are you a security expert, or just want to stereotype. Do you think all blacks are great basketball players as well?

You choose to ignore common sense. Fine. Have at it.


55 posted on 12/08/2005 9:35:42 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

So if someone comes on the bus without ID, do they stop the bus and make him get off? Let's see...the woman in this case didn't have ID and they didn't stop the bus from going through the facility.

Or are you saying they are using cameras and facial recognition to see if a person has a fake ID? Something like that?


56 posted on 12/08/2005 9:36:00 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: JTN

was the WTC high security??


57 posted on 12/08/2005 9:37:06 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: ican'tbelieveit

Here: you have 1000 people on mass transit and a threat. Scenario 1 - all ID's are checked. Scenario 2, because of people who think like you no ID's are checked, nothing is done. Under which scenario (and please be honest) is there more likelihood of stopping the threat???


58 posted on 12/08/2005 9:38:13 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: JeffAtlanta

Here: you have 1000 people on mass transit and a threat. Scenario 1 - all ID's are checked. Scenario 2, because of people who think like you no ID's are checked, nothing is done. Under which scenario (and please be honest) is there more likelihood of stopping the threat???


59 posted on 12/08/2005 9:38:48 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
was the WTC high security??

Good point. Had there been an ID check at the door, the Trade Center would probably still be standing.

60 posted on 12/08/2005 9:39:05 AM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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