[Irontank]

For those who've not read it...I highly recommend Day of Deceit...Robert Stinnett's book on this subject

Day of Deceit

[Semper Paratus]

Can't say that the pre-war intelligence was wrong here.

[peyton randolph]

Of course. And Bush and the Israelis had advance notice of 9/11. /sarc

This is DUmmy Moonbat stuff.

[atomicpossum]

What was Halliburton's role in this?

[rellimpank]

-b-

[PeterPrinciple]

You write that in late November 1941 an order was sent out to all US military commanders that stated: “The United States desires that Japan commit the first overt act.” According to Secretary of War Stimson, the order came directly from President Roosevelt. Was FDR’s cabinet on record for supporting this policy of provoking Japan to commit the first overt act of war?


I interpet that to mean: we aren't going to start it but if they do, we better be ready

[brothers4thID]

"Ultimately, General George Marshall, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, persuaded Dewey not to make the speeches. Japan’s naval leaders did not realize America had cracked their codes, and Dewey’s speeches could have sacrificed America’s code-breaking advantage. So, Dewey said nothing, and in November FDR was elected president for the fourth time. "

I question this line of reasoning. The Jappanese were alerted to our code-breaking abilities by a story run in the Chicago Tribune following the Battle of Midway and by a speech made by a Congressman on the floor of the House.

Furthermore, the code used before Pearl was changed shortly after Midway, leading to a blackout of actual decoding prior to the invasion of Guadalcanal. Had the Jappanese been clued in by Dewey's speeches they would have learned that the US could break codes last used in mid 1942. Codes that had been changed multiple times since.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I just don't know what to think. FDR could have let the Japanese get close enough, then we could have sunk their ships. We could still have declared war on Japan, but not lose as many people as we did by letting them sandbag us.

I really do have to question the timing of this article. It sounds like a disinformation ploy for people to question our role in Iraq.

[PeterPrinciple]

There were all kinds of small events that could have changed the future. There were snafus throught out the whole process.

If you think your enemy is going to strike and you act in preperatiion, it doesn't mean you cause it. Japan was going to attack, you can try to influence when.

[TheRobb7]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1535158/posts?page=9#9

[Calpernia]

[ARCADIA]

Our ability to decode intercepted Japanese messages was well less then 100%. But, even if we had the information, what were we supposed to do with it? Tensions between the US and Japan had been building for some time, and the rest of the world was in the middle of a world war. We were already at a high alert and gearing up war-level production of military equipment and personnel. A state of war did not exist.

- Would it be smart to let the Japanese know that we have broken their code, by publishing the exact content of their coded message?
- Should the administration attack the Japanese fleet in international waters, without a declaration of hostilities, without a declaration of war, and strike the first blow?

We did all that could have been done. We warned our bases and continued to prepare. It was Kimmel who failed to appreciate the risk. It was his fault that we were caught with our pants down at Pearl Harbor. He should have appreciated that we had a large number of assets assigned to his command, and he should have used some of them to establish adequate pickets and responses.

[Phsstpok]

Looks like this must be an old article:

One might wonder if the theory that President Franklin Roosevelt had a foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack would have been alluded to in this summer’s movie, Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor was a 2001 movie.

doesn't change the thrust of the article, just the timing. Presumably being post 9/11 it would also explain why this kind of revelation would have been overlooked (besides the normal "protect dems at all cost" media)

[ken5050]

I've read the book, and can heartily recommend it...

To those who don't really understand how strong the isolationist sentiment was here before the war, ( and parenthetically, to those who decry the level of partisan bitterness in DC today) during the Senate debate on FRD's Lend-Lease bill, Sen Wm Borah (R-Idaho) a leader of the isolationist bloc, in a passionate speech opposing the bill, said that "if it passes...if will drag us into a war in Europe, and plow under every fourth American boy!"

[The Great RJ]

While it is true that decoded radio intercepts gave some warning of an imminent attack, the information was not sufficient at the time to precisely identify where and when the attack might occur. Note that US forces in the Philippines and even in Hawaii were put on alert prior to December 7th, but did not know the nature of the attack. Admiral Kimmel and Gen. Short assumed that the most likely means of attack in Hawaii was by saboteurs or small landing forces and thus planes were lined up wing to wing to make defense against such attacks easier. The notion that Japanese carriers could deliver an airborne attack across the Pacific was just not considered as a possibility.

It's easy to see how all the pieces pointed to an air attack at Pearl Harbor after the fact, but at the time it was just not considered plausible.

[BenLurkin]

The suggestion that FDR had foreknowledfge of the impending Japanese attack prepdates Stinnet by decades.


His response: What else could FDR do? If they had sallied the fleet it would have been sunk in open waters with an even greater loss of life and no opportunity for salvage. (some of the BBs sunk at Pearl harbor were in fact raised and used later in the Pacific war.)

At least the carriers were tucked away out of danger.

[ASA Vet]

MI PING

WW II Intercept stuff.
If true, Candidate Dewey was a patriot.
Who here believes Comrade Kerry would not have disclosed such classified information?

[TChris]

Roosevelt and Clinton: Spiritual Brothers in Treason

[Stevenc131]

The author continually refers to the fact certain messages were intercepted before Dec. 7, which they were, but the problem is that the U.S. had not broken all the different codes used by the Japanese, so many of the military messages remained unread. There were plenty of clues in the codes that we had broken, i.e. the diplomatic code, but hindsight has provided a clarity that wasn't there prior to the attack.

'And I Was There' by Edwin T. Layton is required reading and contains much information on the abilities of U.S. intelligence prior to and during the first part of WWII. As the title suggests, Layton, who was the Fleet Intelligence Officer at Pearl Harbror, was indeed there. He personally knew a great number of the members of the military intelligence community both in Hawaii and in Washington and his account of the goings on prior to both the Pearl Harbor attack and Midway are real eye-openers.

[usmcobra]

In the Thirties, a Marine Corps Major wrote a book that accurately described to the day how the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor, including how many waves of aircraft, how many aircraft and the time of the attack on December 7, 1944.

All he got wrong was the year, and for the life of me I can't remember his name.

[kellynla]

BTTT