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Why Fight Over Intelligent Design?
Foxnews.com/Cato ^ | November 22, 2005 | Andrew J. Coulson

Posted on 12/06/2005 11:55:32 AM PST by MRMEAN

Andrew J. Coulson is director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the Cato Institute.

Supporters of the theory of human origins known as "intelligent design" want it taught alongside the theory of evolution. Opponents will do anything to keep it out of science classrooms. The disagreement is clear.

But why does everyone assume that we must settle it through an ideological death-match in the town square?

Intelligent design contends that life on Earth is too complex to have evolved naturally, and so must be the product of an unspecified intelligent designer. Most adherents of this idea would undoubtedly be happy just to have it taught to their own children, and most of my fellow evolutionists presumably believe they should have that right. So why are we fighting?

We're fighting because the institution of public schooling forces us to, by permitting only one government-sanctioned explanation of human origins. The only way for one side to have its views reflected in the official curriculum is at the expense of the other side.

This manufactured conflict serves no public good. After all, does it really matter if some Americans believe intelligent design is a valid scientific theory while others see it as a Lamb of God in sheep's clothing? Surely not. While there are certainly issues on which consensus is key — respect for the rule of law and the rights of fellow citizens, tolerance of differing viewpoints, etc. — the origin of species is not one of them.

The sad truth is that state-run schooling has created a multitude of similarly pointless battles. Nothing is gained, for instance, by compelling conformity on school prayer, random drug testing, the set of religious holidays that are worth observing, or the most appropriate forms of sex education.

Not only are these conflicts unnecessary, they are socially corrosive. Every time we fight over the official government curriculum, it breeds more resentment and animosity within our communities. These public-schooling-induced battles have done much to inflame tensions between Red and Blue America.

But while Americans bicker incessantly over pedagogical teachings, we seldom fight over theological ones. The difference, of course, is that the Bill of Rights precludes the establishment of an official religion. Our founding fathers were prescient in calling for the separation of church and state, but failed to foresee the dire social consequences of entangling education and state. Those consequences are now all too apparent.

Fortunately, there is a way to end the cycle of educational violence: parental choice. Why not reorganize our schools so that parents can easily get the sort of education they value for their own children without having to force it on their neighbors?

Doing so would not be difficult. A combination of tax relief for middle income families and financial assistance for low-income families would give everyone access to the independent education marketplace. A few strokes of the legislative pen could thus bring peace along the entire "education front" of America's culture war.

But let's be honest. At least a few Americans see our recurrent battles over the government curriculum as a price worth paying. Even in the "land of the free," there is a temptation to seize the apparatus of state schooling and use it to proselytize our neighbors with our own ideas or beliefs.

In addition to being socially divisive and utterly incompatible with American ideals, such propagandizing is also ineffectual. After generations in which evolution has been public schooling's sole explanation of human origins, only a third of Americans consider it a theory well-supported by scientific evidence. By contrast, 51 percent of Americans believe "God created human beings in their present form."

These findings should give pause not only to evolutionists but to supporters of intelligent design as well. After all, if public schooling has made such a hash of teaching evolution, why expect it to do any better with I.D.?

Admittedly, the promotion of social harmony is an unusual justification for replacing public schools with parent-driven education markets. Most arguments for parental choice rest on the private sector's superior academic performance or cost-effectiveness. But when you stop and think about it, doesn't the combination of these advantages suggest that free markets would be a far more intelligent design for American education?

This article appeared on FOXNews.com on November 18, 2005.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: crevolist; intelligentdesign
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To: 2ndreconmarine

You choke on a gnat while swallowing a camel.


141 posted on 12/06/2005 7:32:43 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: 2ndreconmarine

Well, goody, goody for you. Your children will be the elitist snobs that everyone hates so much. Much like you, I imagine.


142 posted on 12/06/2005 7:34:49 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
You choke on a gnat while swallowing a camel.

You didn't understand it, did you?? Should have figured. LOL

143 posted on 12/06/2005 7:39:29 PM PST by 2ndreconmarine (Horse feces (929 citations) vs ID (0 citations) and horse feces wins!!!!!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
the elitist snobs that everyone hates so much. Much like you, I imagine

Hit a nerve, did I?? LOL

You are probably right though. Although once upon a time the Republican party and conservatives were the party of merit. We believed that people should be rewarded for hard work, hard study, intellect, and accomplishment.

One of the reasons that creationism / ID is a cancer on conservatism, as one poster's tag line states, is that now we are becoming the party that hates that; education and hard work have become "elitism".

144 posted on 12/06/2005 7:43:09 PM PST by 2ndreconmarine (Horse feces (929 citations) vs ID (0 citations) and horse feces wins!!!!!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
You choke on a gnat while swallowing a camel.

Yet another creationist degenerates into insults because he can't stand the fact that he's wrong.
145 posted on 12/06/2005 7:44:15 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Thing do NOT decrease in entropy over time naturally.

Yes, yes they can so long as there is a net increase in entropy overall. Ranting and raving over this only makes you look stubborn and stupid, it will not change the laws of physics to suit your whim.

You are wrong when you claim that the Second Law of Thermodynamics makes evolution impossible. Deal with it and admit your mistake.
146 posted on 12/06/2005 7:49:06 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
So what if I missed the exact wording?

You didn't just miss the exact wording. There is no official wording of the Second Law. No, you completely misstated it, giving a nonsensical caricature which contradicts the First Law.

Thing do NOT decrease in entropy over time naturally.

Sure they do. A mug of hot water, as it cools, decreases dramatically in entropy. I no longer have much hope that you're willing to learn, but I'll try anyways: The Second Law states only that an isolated system tends to increase in entropy over time. An isolated system is one in which no energy is exchanged with the surroundings. When you put an ice cube into a bowl of water, the water decreases in entropy as it becomes colder, but the entire water-ice system increases in entropy overall, because the melting ice gains entropy greater than that lost by the intially liquid water.

No explosion has ever produced a laptop computer. No tornado has ever assembled a Rolls Royce.

Astute observations. When you can tell me how they relate to evolution or thermodynamics, I'll know how to respond.

This post is getting rather long, so I'll refute your faulty mathematics in another post.
147 posted on 12/06/2005 7:57:15 PM PST by aNYCguy
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Even if you could try a trillion, trillion combinations per second, your chances of coming up with a plausable, self replicating, stable virus are mathmatically ZERO even if you considered the universe a billion times older than the current claims.

You are confusing the complexity of zero-order pattern with the total information it contains. An infinite zero-order pattern can contain trivial complexity in both time and space (small enough to fit on cocktail napkin with a crayon), and it is more than obvious that you are not equipped to make this determination of a virus. We already know that the total complexity of living organisms is unimaginably smaller than their expression.

Your mickey mouse "statistics" don't even take into account the extremely biased phase space of real molecular systems, which represents an astronomical reduction in the improbability of the conformations in question. If you keep throwing up petrol-soaked strawmen, people with a modicum of science and mathematical ability will continue to torch them.

148 posted on 12/06/2005 9:22:07 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Regicide
"Well did the pot every get a hemmoroid? Did the pot ever have to pay for orthodontia for his kids?"

Ah, but because you understand physical sickness, you are in a better position to understand spiritual illness. You learn to treat a physical illness, instead of letting that hemmoroid go untreated. Same with the orthodontia. Without that object lesson, you might never learn to identify spiritual hemmoroids, much less take steps to treat it.

Because you see death, and understand death, you are in a better position to avoid spiritual death. But then there's also spiritual lemmings. The choice is yours.

149 posted on 12/06/2005 9:40:56 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Blood of Tyrants
What is the minimum number of amino acid molecules required to make up the simlest virus? A few thousand? I really have no idea but for the sake of argument lets call it 1000. The number of total possible combinations is 1000! which equates to 4.023872e+2567...

Tortoise has already vaporized your strawman version of evolution, but I just wanted to point out that "the number of total possible combinations" is not 1000 factorial.

I'm not going to address your biology, just your math. If we're working with 20 amino acids, and our virus will be made of 1000, the total number of permutations is 20^1000, which is vastly smaller than 1000!.

If you're going to use a combinatorial statistical argument, I'd think it best to know a little about combinatorics.
150 posted on 12/06/2005 9:49:08 PM PST by aNYCguy
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Thing do NOT decrease in entropy over time naturally.

Yes they do. All the time. The 2nd law of thermodynamics places limits on the entropy change of a system depending on the external energy input, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of entropy increasing. If it did, refrigeration (both natural and artificial) wouldn't work.

No explosion has ever produced a laptop computer. No tornado has ever assembled a Rolls Royce. And no random combination of molecules has ever produced life. What is the minimum number of amino acid molecules required to make up the simplest virus? A few thousand? I really have no idea but for the sake of argument lets call it 1000. The number of total possible combinations is 1000! which equates to 4.023872e+2567.

These comparisons don't make any sense. Viruses weren't assembled by random collisions of molecules any more than a newborn baby is assembled by the random collision of molecules. For one thing, peptides with as few as 32 amino acids have been observed to self-replicate in the right environment. Second, your rudimentary calculation ignores the possibility of any very simple selection mechanisms at the most basic level.

An analogy -- if you flip a row of 100 coins repeatedly, it will take you somewhere around 1029 attempts to land all heads or all tails. You wouldn't get it done in a billion billion years. Implement the strongest selection method possible (only re-flipping tails), and you'll probably have all heads in less than 10 flips. Implement a weaker selection mechanism (like only keeping heads when they appear next to other heads), and you'll get something in between these extremes. The chemical behavior of complex organic compounds implements selection mechanisms, many of which we are only beginning to understand, and unless one has specific knowledge of how those selection mechanisms work, it is impossible to generate even a remotely accurate evaluation of the probability that self-reproducing systems (i.e. the precursors of life) could generate of their own accord.

151 posted on 12/06/2005 10:11:04 PM PST by Quark2005 (No time to play. One post per day.)
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To: MRMEAN
This manufactured conflict serves no public good

I disagree.

It 'forces' one to look at which side of the fence he's on, to clarify what he ACTUALLY believes, and to make a stand thereon.


Joshua 24:15

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

152 posted on 12/07/2005 5:14:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: My2Cents
If our noses were turned up, we'd all drown when it rains.

NO; the pressure to survive would be so great, that they would migrate to the middle of our backs, so we could breathe so much better while swimming.

153 posted on 12/07/2005 5:16:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Pondman88
I was taught, in a Jesuit school, that evolution and Creationism (Genesis) actually reinforce each other, at least on the metaphorical level.
 
It is probably the most profound lesson I learned in high school.


 
 
Most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says.  If, as they say, they 'believe' the words of Jesus and then of the New Testament writers, they have to decide what the following verses mean:
 
Romans 5:12-21
 12.  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
 13.  for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
 14.  Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
 15.  But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 16.  Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
 17.  For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
 18.  Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
 19.  For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 20.  The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
 21.  so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
 
 
If there were  no one man, that means SIN did NOT enter the World thru him.
 
If Adam was NOT the one man, that means SPIRITUAL DEATH did not come thru him.
 
If SIN did NOT enter the World thru the one man, that means Jesus does not save from SIN.
 
 
Are we to believe that the one man is symbolic (or metaphorical)?  Does that mean Jesus is symbolic (or metaphorical) as well?
 
 
The Theory of Evolution states that there WAS no one man, but a wide population that managed to inherit that last mutated gene that makes MEN different from APES.
 
 
 
 
1 Timothy 2:13
  For Adam was formed first, then Eve.   Was Paul WRONG about this???
 
 

154 posted on 12/07/2005 5:19:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: MonroeDNA
The religeous ID folks have damaged the Pubbie party enough. No more.

Boo Hoo!!!!

I guess you want us to go to the Liberals then??

155 posted on 12/07/2005 5:21:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: highball
Dumbing down educational standards in science is neither silly nor pointless....

Then WHY, in God's nmae, don't the E's rant about the DD in ALL the other subjects???

156 posted on 12/07/2005 5:23:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
Science ALL textbooks, and biology textbooks in particular, used by public schools have so little science FACTUAL information in them that Americans learn almost no science NOTHING!.

157 posted on 12/07/2005 5:25:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: edsheppa
You wouldn't care if, for example, astrology were taught alongside astronomy?

Why not??

It would become quite obvious which one is TRUE, eh?

158 posted on 12/07/2005 5:27:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Regicide
Well did the pot every get a hemmoroid? Did the pot ever have to pay for orthodontia for his kids?

Why wait or Nature to 'select' for good qualities? We should DEFINITELY help E along then: Keep the defective from reproducing; by what ever means is most effective.

159 posted on 12/07/2005 5:29:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Coyoteman
Not sure why I hang out on these threads--kind of addicting really.

I know whereof you speak!

160 posted on 12/07/2005 5:31:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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