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To: conservative physics
Why can't people just read and believe their Bible. If you claim Christ, you must believe what He says. He taught more about Hell than Heaven. If you believe Christ is God in the flesh, then God is a liar if there is no Hell. I won't even attempt to try to explain or understand what or where Hell is, but I know my Savior isn't a liar, so there is a Hell, and I would be separated from Him if I go there. Confusion is from Satan, and that's what all this discussion is designed to do, confuse. There is no purgatory, limbo, or whatever. The Bible tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When you die, you see God, period. That is a bad thing if you aren't saved. If you are saved, it is the purpose of your being. We don't have the luxury of changing the meaning of the Bible to our whims. Jesus taught every Saturday from the same Bible we read. He spoke of Adam and Eve, so to hell with evolution. He never mentioned apes or pond scum when He taught. He told of Sodom and Gomorrah, so forget trying to pass off sexual abomination as acceptable to God. The people that sat under His teaching didn't come back later and say, well, you know that passage in Genesis, Jesus changed it to such and such.

Hell is real and their will be many go there. Jesus said the road there is wide. I believe few will be saved. Most people seem to think most will be saved. I see no indication of that in scripture. One of the reasons we are to "fear" the Lord, is to have reverence for His Word, and not to take it for grated that we are going to heaven because God is good and loves us. Jesus said there is "none good, no not one."

There is no second chance given either. What you do with Jesus while alive on earth is it, period. There is no chance for someone else to "pray" you to heaven. It is a personal invitation from the Holy Spirit that saves you. A family member has no control over what happens to anybody else. Otherwise you could blame mom for dads trip to hell because she didn't pray hard enough. Self righteous people will scoff at what the Bible teaches and make up what they want to hear because they don't fear God. A person that reads about the character of God and believes what is written about Him( after all He wrote it), will inquire diligently into His Word in order to make sure that they are saved. That path is truly narrow. They must believe that Jesus is God on earth in the flesh and that He gave His life willingly on the cross to pay for our personal sins. They must confess they are sinners and Jesus is perfect. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. There is no other. I hear people saying they are Christians, but that others can get to Heaven just by being good people. That is blasphemy to Jesus and you are saying to God that He wasted His Son's sacrifice because you didn't need it. Even to say that YOU found God is boasting that you had something to do with salvation. Grace is a mystery and should be studied endlessly to see the depths God went to to keep us from Hell. We ALL deserve Hell and death, and yet some are saved for only reasons God knows.

29 posted on 12/04/2005 1:04:09 AM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles

yet some are saved for only reasons God knows


Because they accepted Him as their Lord and Savior, obeyed and followed His Word. We take up our cross daily and daily crucify our flesh.

Amen. Great post, chuckles. Your first two sentences says it all:
Why can't people just read and believe their Bible. If you claim Christ, you must believe what He says


31 posted on 12/04/2005 2:14:30 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: chuckles
Consider this, from Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan in 1668:

Part III. Of a Christian Commonwealth.
Chap. xxxviii. Of Eternal Life, Hell, Salvation, and Redemption.

[12] And first, for the tormentors, we have their nature and properties exactly and properly delivered by the names of the Enemy (or Satan), the Accuser (or Diabolus), the Destroyer (or Abaddon). Which significant names (Satan, Devil, Abaddon) set not forth to us any individual person, as proper names do, but only an office or quality, and are therefore appellatives, which ought not to have been left untranslated (as they are in the Latin and modern Bibles), because thereby they seem to be the proper names of demons, and men are the more easily seduced to believe the doctrine of devils, which at that time was the religion of the Gentiles, and contrary to that of Moses, and of Christ.

[13] And because by the Enemy, the Accuser, and Destroyer, is meant the enemy of them that shall be in the kingdom of God, therefore if the kingdom of God after the resurrection be upon the earth (as in the former Chapter I have shewn by Scripture it seems to be), the Enemy and his kingdom must be on earth also. For so also was it in the time before the Jews had deposed God. For God's kingdom was in Israel, and the nations round about were the kingdoms of the Enemy; and consequently, by Satan is meant any earthly enemy of the Church.

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness
Chap. xlvii. Of the Benefit that proceedeth from such Darkness

[1] Besides these sovereign powers, divine and human, of which I have hitherto discoursed, there is mention in Scripture of another power, namely, that of "the rulers of the darkness of this world," [Ephesians, 6. 12] "the kingdom of Satan," [Matthew, 12. 26] and "the principality of Beelzebub over demons," [Ibid., 9. 34] that is to say, over phantasms that appear in the air: for which cause Satan is also called "the prince of the power of the air"; [Ephesians, 2. 2] and, because he ruleth in the darkness of this world, "the prince of this world":[John, 16. 11] and in consequence hereunto, they who are under his dominion, in opposition to the faithful, who are the "children of the light," are called the "children of darkness." For seeing Beelzebub is prince of phantasms, inhabitants of his dominion of air and darkness, the children of darkness, and these demons, phantasms, or spirits of illusion, signify allegorically the same thing. This considered, the kingdom of darkness, as it is set forth in these and other places of the Scripture, is nothing else but a confederacy of deceivers that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavour, by dark and erroneous doctrines, to extinguish in them the light, both of nature and of the Gospel; and so to disprepare them for the Kingdom of God to come.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/hobbes/leviathan-contents.html

33 posted on 12/04/2005 3:42:10 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: chuckles
What is sin? What is "personal" sin?

Just curious. It's thrown about so much and never defined, exactly.

46 posted on 12/04/2005 8:59:04 AM PST by ARridgerunner
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To: chuckles
We ALL deserve Hell and death, and yet some are saved for only reasons God knows.

I don't agree. God created us to be with HIM forever. It is by our choosing poorly that we separate ourselves from Him. He gave us the freedom to find our way to him, and sends 'messengers' of all kinds to help us on our way.

Some of us are blessed to have parents who brought us to Church, and supported us as we learned His Word, and our faith. Some stayed with the Church, some left and never came back for whatever reason. Some left, but found their way back because, as St. Ignatius said of God, "Our hearts are restless, until they rest in Thee."

106 posted on 12/05/2005 6:09:21 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: chuckles
There is no purgatory, limbo, or whatever. The Bible tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When you die, you see God, period. That is a bad thing if you aren't saved. If you are saved, it is the purpose of your being.

So where are all the people who lived before Jesus was born? They can't be "saved" because they can't believe Jesus died for their sins because there was no Jesus. Are they in heaven? If so, how did they get there without being saved? Are they in hell? If so, why?

151 posted on 12/06/2005 1:42:38 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: chuckles
There is no second chance given either. What you do with Jesus while alive on earth is it, period.

Sez who?

152 posted on 12/06/2005 1:44:09 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: chuckles
Why can't people just read and believe their Bible.

The pride of life and moral relativism. What you said! Go Freeper class of '98!
178 posted on 12/07/2005 7:33:36 AM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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