Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...

WSJ ^ | November 30, 2005; Page A19 | By HOLMAN W. JENKINS, JR.

[Tank-FL]

We at the Toyota Motor Corporation are writing to address certain misconceptions that have arisen about your Toyota Prius model, which we are proud to note is driven by many celebrities, including Prince Charles and HBO's Larry David. Our pioneering gasoline-electric hybrid, introduced in 1999, has become an object of adoration to the world's enlightened car buyers. Our competitors, including America's Big Three, are rushing out hybrid vehicles of their own..

[dhuffman@awod.com]

VW TDI = 55mpg@60K miles

[sully777]

Wait until the first oil change and you find that hybrids use a special "hybrid only" blend that costs the owner over $30 for a four cylander engine (Normal oil change costs $21)

Wait until they must replace the braking system

WAIT, I said, WAIT until they must replace the battery at approxiamately 130,000 miles -- I received an estimate of over $3,000

And lastly, consider the pollution and cost of disposing old batteries and components and the ever-present danger of electro-magnetic energy hitting your body over prolonged periods of time (it's like sitting inside a cellphone).

[hedgie]

My ride is a hybrid diesel almost every day. The hybrid drive has some major benefits: no transmission=low floor so everybody can get on and off quickly also, lower emissions, which in NYC means not getting blasted with soot when the bus pulls away from the curve.

[Candor7]

I drive a red chebby short box P.U.with a screamin vortac V8. I lub my chebby and never will even ride in a Trius.

I leave the trius's behind on the steep hills of Vermont!

[Feiny]

I don't care who makes fun of my Prius. I bought it used 2 months ago for $3,000 less than any other model was selling and it has under 10,000 miles. I actuially like the way it looks....I think it drives awesome, has plenty of pick up & it getting amazing gas mileage plus is a 4 door hatchback that carries much more than my Landrover Freelander & Exploere sport used to....those cars were crap. My Prius handles great & I love to drive it. I did not buy it for any green reasons, but it nice to only fill my tank once or twice a month instead of twice a week. I am getting about 48 miles per gallon....sometimes more....of course I would LOVE to have my old Ford F-150 back, but I sold it a few years ago....I miss that truck.

[sully777]

I leave the trius's behind on the steep hills of Vermont!

---

In my city we have something called UP WITH TREES. So, your stance is UP WITH TRIUS, or more to the point, WTH's UP WITH TRIUS? No? Yes? Si? Non?

[gogeo]

Having read your post, I must conclude your engineering knowledge is limited at best.

[wildcatf4f3]

The process for making vegetable oil uses more energy to produce it than it generates and leaves the whole neighborhood smelling like a poorly managed McDonnalds and will give you zits.


or maybe not

[Imnotalib]

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[Imnotalib]

Went to look at a VW Jetta with diesel power - found the same bad economics as with hybrids. People have driven the price $2500 beyond the same care with a gas engine. I would have to drive a lot of miles to get back my $2500.

[Imnotalib]

The hybrid didn't get the Car of the Year, the whole line of Civics, which included the hybrid, did. First time an entire model line got the award.

"The Honda Civic has captured Motor Trend magazine's "Car of the Year" award, the publication for auto enthusiasts announced Tuesday.

The magazine said that it is giving the award to the Civic for all four of its new versions."

[Imnotalib]

The Echo is OK if you're satisfied driving something that offers roughly the same crash protection as a tin can with airbags.

[RebelBanker]

I periodically haul about 500 pounds of bulky gear and a 6,000 pound trailer, including off road. When the transmission in my Chevy Tahoe started acting up, I sold it and bought a Dodge Ram 2500 pick-up (yeah, it's got a Hemi). I looked at the diesel models, but they were so much more expensive and impractical for my everyday short hop driving that I decided against going with that option.

The only regret I have in getting the Ram rather than a Ford F-250 is that the back seat is a lot smaller in the Dodge. However, the Ford I test drove was way underpowered compared to the Dodge.

[hermgem]

What happens after 7-8 years when batteries go dead?
It's another $4,000, plus disposal of the old batteries.
You own a 7 year old car that needs batteries plus repairs, and what economic decision would you make?
Sink another $4-5000 or more, depending on additional repairs into your old car?
Your resale value of course is $5,000 less (buyer needs to get new batteries) than what a gasoline vehicle of the same age would fetch.

[Spktyr]

The Honda Accord hybrid is definitely worth buying. It's actually *faster* and more powerful than the most powerful non-hybrid Accord. And most importantly, it's a usable *CAR* first and a hybrid second. Toyota took the other approach and made it a hybrid first, car second, and the results just suck.

The only way you can tell an Accord Hybrid apart is by the dead silence at a stop and the badge on the back. Otherwise, it looks just like a regular Accord, inside and out (though you do sacrifice some trunk room).

[DTogo]

Take our new hybrid SUV, which produces 38 more horsepower but gets the same mileage as our conventional version. A New York Times reviewer wrote, "One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?"

I've often wondered why there seems to be an apparent refusal to print the RX400h's EPA fuel economy ratings anywhere.

[supercat]

The process for making vegetable oil uses more energy to produce it than it generates and leaves the whole neighborhood smelling like a poorly managed McDonnalds and will give you zits.

Growing plants for the purpose of turning them into fuel probably doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, there is a supply of vegetable matter of various forms which are presently regarded as "waste". Some of these forms may be rendered into fuel economically (i.e. the cost of processing, minus the value of the fuel, is less than the avoided cost of disposal).

[supercat]

Yes. OTOH there could be something to be said for a hybrid diesel.

Diesel locomotives are all hybrids.

That having been said, there is a very important difference between locomotive and automotive design objectives.

Locomotives are supposed to be heavy. Even if one were to produce a miraculous power source for a locomotive which could supply all the needed power and energy in a fifty pound package, one would still have to throw in many tons of balast to have a usable locomotive. By contrast, cars are supposed to be lightweight. If someone could design a car's power source to be 50lbs while still providing useful power and energy, that would be a major engineering coup.

[supercat]

Though, Detroit probably should have pushed on it more because:

I would favor the development of three other technologies:

1. Variable-displacement engines
2. Power control using variable delayed intake closure instead of throttling (gives the Miller Cycle's advantages at lower power levels, while allowing more power when needed)
3. A five-cycle mode of operation when cruising (another freeper posted a white paper here some time ago; on an inline four, during low-power operation, the inner two cylinders would be used together as a double-sized "compounding" cylinder for the outer two).

I would think these would improve efficiency as much as would hybrid technology, but at lower cost.

[peter the great]

A few things worth thinking about. First we had a good week. Gas prices were falling. The speech by the President combined with good economic news and to sum it up we had the Rats on the Ropes. This article comes along satire or not Rush reported this as fact, never once mentioning what happened in Oregon as a result of hybrid cars. One other thing that I know for certain is that the statistics can not be trusted you must remember that for this car to work you got to drive in a heavily congested area like New York at rush hour. This article hit and oil is on the way up again and that is a problem. One other thing that we can say for sure is that Dubya has some very mean and powerful enemies.