Watch out, Badray!!! That word means: "Your papers, please!"
Posted on 11/30/2005 11:34:30 AM PST by JTN
The first time she was asked to show identification while riding the bus to work, Deborah Davis was so startled that she complied without thinking. But the more she thought about it, the less sense it made.
That's how Davis, a 50-year-old Colorado woman with four grown children and five grandchildren, ended up getting dragged off the bus by federal security officers, who handcuffed her, took her to their station, and cited her for two misdemeanors. Davis, who is scheduled to be arraigned on December 9, is risking 60 days in jail to show her fellow Americans that they don't need to blindly obey every dictate imposed in the name of security.
The public bus that Davis took to her office job in Lakewood, Colorado, crosses the Denver Federal Center, a 90-building complex occupied by agencies such as the U.S. Geological Survey, the Interior Department, the General Services Administration, and the Bureau of Land Management. "The facility is not high security," says Davis. "It's not Area 51 or NORAD or the Rocky Mountain Arsenal."
Guards nevertheless board buses as they enter the complex and demand IDs from passengers, whether or not they're getting off there. According to Davis, the guards barely glance at the IDs, let alone write down names or check them against a list.
"It's just an obedience test," says Gail Johnson, a lawyer recruited to represent Davis by the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado. "It does nothing for security."
Ahmad Taha, supervisory special agent with the Federal Protective Service, which is in charge of security at the Denver complex, said guards there have been checking the IDs of bus passengers since 9/11. He declined to explain the security rationale for this ritual or to comment on Davis' case.
After complying the first day she rode the bus, Davis began saying she had no ID and was not getting off at the Federal Center anyway. One Friday in late September, a guard told her she would not be permitted to ride the bus anymore without ID.
Before taking the stand that led to her arrest, Davis says, "I spent the weekend making sure that the Constitution hadn't changed since I was in the eighth grade, and it hadn't....We're not required to carry papers....We have a right to be anonymous."
Last year the Supreme Court ruled that a suspect in a criminal investigation can be required to give his name. But it has never upheld a policy of requiring ordinary citizens to carry ID and present it on demand. Davis "wasn't doing anything wrong," notes Johnson. "She wasn't suspected of doing anything wrong. She was a completely innocent person on the way to work."
Johnson plans to argue that the ID requirement violates Davis' First Amendment right to freedom of association, her Fourth Amendment right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures, and her Fifth Amendment right not to be deprived of liberty (in this case, freedom of travel) without due process. A civil case raising similar issues in the context of airport ID checks is scheduled to be heard by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit the day before Davis' arraignment.
"Enough is enough," says Davis. "Our rights are being taken away a little piece at a time, and people are letting it happen."
Pulling out your driver's license may seem like a slight imposition, but the justification is even slighter. Since anyone can flash an ID, the procedure does not distinguish between people who pose a threat and people who don't. It does not even distinguish between people who are visiting the Federal Center and people who are merely riding a bus that happens to pass through it.
In a free country, citizens have no obligation to explain themselves to the government as they go about their daily lives. It's the government that owes us an explanation.
Finally it boils down to the 'I was just following orders' defense.
Except that's not been a valid defense since Nuremberg.
You are very Welcome.
She's not breaking a law. Which law specifies that she must carry an ID card while on a public bus on a public highway?
I'm denying that she's "on" a federal facility. By your reasoning an Interstate Highway is a "federal facility." She's on a public road in public transportation that passes through a federal facility. Once she steps off the bus on the property, then you can ask for an ID.
Watch out, Badray!!! That word means: "Your papers, please!"
Officer Dove needs some remedial training, post haste.
Most youngsters (<16) do not typically carry IDs. Does this mean that they cannot ride the bus?
Well, doesn't bode too well for us all if we're getting Justices "in the mold of Scalia and Thomas" (though I recognize that is likely a spurious quote).
Does the word "Welcome" imply anything? How about when it's "Visitors Welcome"?
YIKES!!!!
me bad.
I had an encounter about 6 months ago with a young cop who accosted me in the parking lot of the local public park. I was contributing recyclable glass into the municipal containers on the property - but it was after dark. (notwithstanding the brightly lit parking lot) Apparently I could not be in the park after dark - even though lots of events are held there that conclude "after dark". The cop rushed over to me, hand on his gun, and demanded to know who I was and what I was doing there (duh?). I was busted!
Confronted with this fool, I remained cool and related the obvious (nicely), and complied with his demands, censoring the many wisecracks that occurred to me. (Not that it was right, but it was practical, I didn't want to be arrested for recycling at the wrong time of day, or flung to the asphalt to be handcuffed til the grownups arrived).
Clearly, this cop needs to be instructed in the ways of dealing with the public in a beneficial way. He was stupid, and dangerous, and unless he is corrected, the public will be harmed by his service.
Actually, from the security guard's point of view, it is all about doing his job.
I'm sorry. Don't know how I missed that.
Oh, well. The more those links are posted, the better - just not in the same thread.
According to the Denver RTD, Bus 100 passes through the area, not terminating at the fed center, as can be seen on the map located here:
http://www.rtd-denver.com/routemaps/r0_100.gif
If this has already been pointed out, I apologise. At what point do we, as citizens, cede all rights to the governemnt? well, they are only doing it to people riding a bus through the fed center.. now they are only doing it to people riding a bus through the city... now they are only doing it to people walking down the streets... why did they start coming to my door asking for my ID?!?!?!
As I said, we can debate the effectiveness of various security measures, but that is not the point here. When the bus passes the perimeter of the facility, it is subject to the increased government powers that exist within that facility. One of those powers is the authority to demand ID.
Now, thay may not be effective, in your view. But it is certain within the government's authority. The woman contends that the government was not within it's authority, but she is wrong.
Actually, I was responding to a poster who was postulating that the guards were doing what they were doing out of some kind of a power trip. I responded that they were merely doing the job. I did not say anything about them only following orders.
The NAZIs at Neuremburg were going evil, unspeakable things. Asking somebody for ID when they enter a federal facility is not in that league, IMHO. If you wish to compare the two, be prepared for people to think you a fool.
She was not on a public highway, though, was she? There is a specific law, cited back around Post 200 or so, that specifically empowers the government to ask for ID on a government facility.
If you are denying she was "on" a federal facility, then you are denying reality.
The reality is that the bus crossed a federal facility. When it crossed the perimeter, everybody on the bus was on the federal facility. At that point, the government can demand ID.
It was not a public road. It was not an interstate highway. The statutory authority that covers federal facilities does not extend to interstate highways, so my argument does not extend to them either.
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