Posted on 11/28/2005 1:55:47 PM PST by TCats
They say better late than never but......
Same old crapola -- nothing new here.
Talk about sophmoric.
This ranting paragraph contributes nothing but personal insults to the discussion.
Not a single fact or shred of information even challenging the post.
I agree, but I am relating how the laws are.
What actually happens is that someone's relative has a genuine item and lends it. Person applies as that relative. Withholding gets filed, IRS dings and then other documents are produced for a totally different person. The employer is tied up and barred from doing anything. It's actually more expensive than is understood by the public.
Almost all of the entry level jobs in housing construction pay the same as they did 25+ years ago due to illegals undercutting wages. Yet houses cost much more than they did then. I haven't worked in the construction industry recently so don't know where the $$ is going that is saved on wages. I do hear that material costs are out of sight- especially lumber due to enviros.
Americans can't work for a 25 year old pay scale, they aren't willing to have 5 families share a house- use the ER for medical care and all the other ways illegals cut the cost of living here.
I think service jobs, like Hotel and Food Service are about the same as construction- wages have not increased in years due to illegals.
The truth is though illegals now hold jobs at many pay levels so many of the jobs they have now would likely be easy to fill. Have you heard all the young people complain how hard it is to get a job while in high school or college, or that entry level job when they finish school?? That is due to illegals.
I don't pretend to know the answers to all the issues of the low paying jobs- but it is true that illegals have kept wages so low few could afford to work as cheap. Fact is though there are legal ways to get foreign workers to fill jobs if there is a shortage after the borders close.
Everyone cannot do managment. CMON NOW.
What you call envious is funny. It isn't about that and you know it. This is just your attempt at rationalization.
I do not wish to see managment be denied their share for work done either. But you attempt to make it out that way. That sir, is called S P I N.
"do what work you can find at the best rate you can find"
YUP, and deny working for less than the labor is worth. That sir is called the FREE MARKET. When an employer cannot fill the positions they WILL raise wages. This is shown true here in the midwest where most jobs pay is above minimum wage already.
Why are you against labor being compensated fairly for the labor they produce?
You have faild to answer if YOU would work that job. You seem to think that just having a job should be thanks enough and the peanuts you would shell uot would be considered frosting.
My time has a value set by ME sir, not YOU. I can back up my worth with presenting the productivity my labor represents. That is to say the PROFITS that I create. This tactic has saw me gain raises and it has also set me out to search out employment elsewhere. A free market thing there again.
Stockholders and managment take too much of the profits it hurts everyone my friend. Maybe you are too old school to see that. That is your problem not mine.
If illegals could no longer come to this country for a better life you can bet they would work to change their own country.
"someone's relative has a genuine item and lends it."
Yes this does happen. It gives credability to the notion of biometrics being a part of an ID. It is time to untie the bindings of this issue and a REAL ID would go far to do so.
I have a little experience with this issue on that note.
When I was young an Illegal Alien was using my SS#. This was never a problem until I filed my tax return. The IRS had no problem taking in cash until TWO sets of income were present.
Part of the problem is that the SS# is being used in ways it was not designed to be used. As a primary source of Identification. This is just another example of why we need a real ID.
People from many nations have immigrated here, and are willing/want to learn to become an American. That is not true of all immigrants.
I have been told by some native born Texans of hispanic heritage that this is their land and they will take it back. In my opinion, if Mexico, etc, is so great - go back. Don't drag us down with them.
Well said tammy8.
How about you ask me in a way that is not a trick question.
Given the fact that all 11 million plus illegals who are currently here are definitional law-breakers from the moment they crossed the border, what is the enforcement mechanism for the aliens' return to their countries once their work permits expire? Why would they suddenly then decide to follow the law?
I have just started reading this thread but I imagine there are other comments as dumb as yours though that will take some doing.
NOW he gives this speech to keep attention away from all the crap that is happening to the Repubs lately....
That certainly sounds like Democrat projection, assigning to Bush motives that are more like their own. Why do you think that is his motive? Maybe he is responding to people like you who demand that he defend his position. A position by the way which he has expressed before but some people choose to have selective memory and forget. Now that he does what you have been demanding you blast him for it.
Bush is late on this....and now only to secure his base....politics at it's best....
Again, how do you assume to be reading his mind? He is not running for anything so why does he need to secure his base? He is particularly free from such necessities.
...if he had our interests at heart, this speech would have been given years ago.
He has explained this several times before but you choose not to know that. Instead everyone like you has been demanding that the borders be secured immediately and every illegal here be immediately rounded up and booted out.
Do you have any idea of the magnitude of that? It is easy to say it but hard to do it, if not impossible. We could get near a civil war on this with the Democrats and all their supporters (including the unions, the Soros bunch, the MSM, and all other assorted leftwingers) on the side of the illegals. Do have any idea what that would do politically? It would elect Hillary, that's what. (Maybe that is what you and yours want.) Do you realize how much our economy would be disrupted if we could remove all the illegals in one day?
You demand easy answers to complex questions and then complain about the timing of it all. I am responding to you but it is intended for all like minded people.
You're nuts.
You can work or not work for whatever you choose. As I pointed out earlier, I've worked minimum wage collecting sheep piss - at the time, it was worth it to me.
Workers DO get their fair share - their fair share is whatever they are willing to work for. THEY determine what is fair when they accept or reject a job offer. If you don't like the wage, go elsewhere or get a more valuable skill.
However, you have posted multiple comments about how a worker should refuse work if management is making a lot of money (and giving it to the owners, called shareholders).
Earth to BlueStateDepression - that is what businesses do in a free economy - make as much money as they can by charging as much as possible while paying as little as possible. This attracts more businesses to that field, resulting in competition. The competition will drive down prices and often pay more to get the better workers.
"If illegals could no longer come to this country for a better life you can bet they would work to change their own country."
Yea, the problem is that the likelihood would be the installation of Mexico's marxist party. Imagine another Chavez, but RIGHT on our border.
Nobody likes to say that we're propping up Mexico, because the government there is corrupt and useless, but there are in fact worse things than corrupt and useless waiting in the wings for their chance.
You are right that the social security number is used differently these days. Also consider that if the income that is reported for the illegal is not included on the forms of the genuine owner, this is how the IRS finds people to ding. But that information cannot be shared with INS.
It affects the genuine taxpayer, and is even more destructive to the retiree, who is then barred from withdrawing benefits and is taxed until he or she can prove the fraud (there is a story of a woman who is retired and has to fix this every year).
There is also the problem of credit card fraud.
Guard your information as carefully as possible.
Good question, I pointed that out in post 214. Note, I disagreed with Bush's logic.
Work occurs because the employer and employee agree on a price. You are right that the price goes down if the illegals are willing to work at a lesser price. But I will add that there are pressures beyond the domestic market-- numerous jobs have been outsourced from New England to India in the service sector. Products are being generated increasingly from China.
We would like to clean up illegal immigration (somehow), but relative to wages, US businesses and workers are vulnerable to global markets.
Another major step forward would be the election of Randy Graf to Congress. He was one of the founders of Proposition 200 and he was also a Minuteman. He received 43% of the vote in the last Republican primary election against a well entrenched, extremely well financed 20-year incumbent. Electing Randy Graf to Congress would send a strong message to Washington that we want our border secured. It would also add another voice and vote to those in Congress who are working to fix the border situation.
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