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Just to keep the discussion going!
1 posted on 11/28/2005 1:46:27 PM PST by Eaglewatcher
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To: Eaglewatcher; pigdog

Pigdog, you might want to checkout this thread.


2 posted on 11/28/2005 1:47:12 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Eaglewatcher

The income tax is not meant to help the economy. It is meant to scare people out of their money to help the homeless, threaten you with jail, buy votes, and support the democratic vote base. It has nothing to do with actually helping America or Americans. Only with buying votes for the democrats. Remember, a democrat started it, said it would go away after the war. That was 60 plus years ago, and that baby is still growing.


3 posted on 11/28/2005 1:49:08 PM PST by RetiredArmy (I have no faith in any politician or political party any more. They all lie for their agendas.)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Income tax restricts the U.S. economy.

This just in... Water is wet!


4 posted on 11/28/2005 1:49:24 PM PST by libertarianPA
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To: Eaglewatcher

The fundamental problem is TWO-fold:

1. The Tax Code is designed to provide Washington with a weapon to use and manipulate to their advantage.

2. We (business and individuals) are GROSSLY OVERTAXED to confiscatory levels.

These two facts lend credence to this article.


5 posted on 11/28/2005 1:49:39 PM PST by EagleUSA
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To: Eaglewatcher
1913...the year the 16th and 17th Amendments were ratified and the year the Federal Reserve was created...

1913...the year that ended the American Republic as the Founders envisioned and created it

8 posted on 11/28/2005 2:01:13 PM PST by Irontank (Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty -- John Adams)
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To: Eaglewatcher

16th amendment ping


14 posted on 11/28/2005 3:07:09 PM PST by Frohickey
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To: Eaglewatcher

Bump.


15 posted on 11/28/2005 3:32:40 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: Eaglewatcher
We spend more than we are taxed.

I'll bet there are 10 times as many threads opposed to taxes as there are to government spending.

17 posted on 11/28/2005 3:54:19 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: Eaglewatcher

I propose that we pay all our taxes to our local city or county. That way, we might just get our roads fixed and have enough money for schools.

If the State wants some, they can provide a list of needs that will help our county and state.

If the Feds want some of our money, they can do the same.

I'm tired of all the taxes that go somewhere and disappear, and my roads still have the ugliest potholes you ever saw.


18 posted on 11/28/2005 4:22:15 PM PST by wizr (I fear not death. Christ lives in my heart.)
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To: Eaglewatcher
The 16th amendment was never ratified..

It was "declared ratified" by the then sec. of state...

That "distinction" is noted by nearly every listing of the constitution and it's amendments you can find..
Check out your personal World Almanac and look at the consitution section.. it's in there..
Note the italicized preface to the 16th..

"Declared ratified"..
Find that "distinction" with any of the other amendments..
It's not there..

The question of whether the 16th was actually a valid amendment has been around as long as the amendment itself..

19 posted on 11/28/2005 4:28:22 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Eaglewatcher

The opening paragraph is cute, but it's worse than that: thanks to the forced loan to the government at 0% interest (a.k.a. withholding), April 15 is the day most of us get back a little piece of what was rightfully ours. (I seem to recall forced loans to the crown were one reason some English king was removed by Parliament a few generations before our War of Independence--a precendent we inheritted, but didn't make proper use of.)


20 posted on 11/28/2005 4:58:10 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Taxes are just another form of oppression.


21 posted on 11/28/2005 4:59:14 PM PST by Tarpon
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To: Eaglewatcher; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; rwrcpa1; phil_will1; kevkrom; ...
A Taxreform bump for you all.

If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.

John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright and replace them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.

H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer for additional information:


26 posted on 11/28/2005 6:18:52 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it!!)
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To: Eaglewatcher
I favor the Fair Tax not principally to get rid of the IRS, although I think its great. I favor it since it would force Americans to pay the bill for government openly every time they make a purchase. People would able to see up front exactly how much government is costing them. That's the key in my view to both reducing spending and our tax burden. Under our current income tax, the cost of government is hidden from public view and tax cuts never really affect the overall spending picture to the extent people think.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

35 posted on 11/28/2005 8:27:32 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Great post!

The Rockefeller/Roosevelt/Morgan cabal set Americans up when it/they pushed for the creation of the Interstate Commerce Comission and the soon after double whammy of the Federal Reserve along with the Fed'l taxing authority under the 16th Amendment. The very crux of the empowerment, and of the enrichment, of the political and social elites so well illustrated in the very recent book "Do as I say - not as I do" which reveals such hypocrites like Striesand and her $22,000/year water bill (for her huge lawns), or the tax evading Kennedy Trusts, or the fact that Kerry paid a mere 12% on millions of income; and which all of whom are huge critics of repealing the death tax and raising taxes.

TR, who succeeded Rockefeller's hand-picked predecessor McKinley, played to the gallery vis his attack of the Std Oil monopoly, while behind the scenes he demanded increased campaign contributions from Std Oil!

In 1907 Judge Landis fined Std oil $29 million. Two weeks later began the great panic of 1907, and in 1911 the SCOTUS ordered Std Oil's dissolution.

In retaliation to the welfare and "liberal crowd", Wall Street, and the Fedl Govt's campaign against Std Oil, Rockefeller saw the power of "philanthropies" in their effectiveness in destroying him. As he had done in building Std Oil, he saw the benefit in compromising with his enemies and joining forces with them, all the while engineering to master and destroy them.

They were cheaply bought off, and he took them over lock, stock and barrel, beginning with taking in hand the social service and "uplift" organizations, which he eventually organized through the New York Tuberculosis & Health Assoc., under Harry L. Hopkins, into a nationwide Social Service Trust. Such control not only muzzled his santimonious critics, but covered all his activities with the cloak of respectibility and thus allowed the tapping of the gullible charitable to the tune of $4 Bil/year, a penny of which was NEVER spent on a TB patient.

The Rockefeller "philathropies" were conceived solely for the dual purpose of removing the curse from the Rockefeller name while enabling the Rockefeller/Std Oil interests to carry on without interference from a hostile public or the Govt. Tons of money was spent influencing media, the Universities and Govt. And these were the guys responsible for mucking up the Middle East over oil.

Bear in mind that between the CW and the turn of the century America and her consumers prospered with ever falling prices in commodities such as oil, steel and in telephone and freight rates; small competititors where cramping the profits the Std Oils, the AT&T's and US Steel's. Hence the ICC, to rescue their profits, by fixing rates at the consumer's expense. (Remember what fixing oil prices in the 70's did for us)

These were the powers that talked America into WWI, which scholars say without which devastation, the rise of Hitler and WWII would never have happened.

Just as much as greedy politicians buying votes with OPM for "the common good", their industrialist enablers were the prime movers in the creation of the 20th Century Welfare/Warfare State we yet suffer mightily under, and it's unfathomable opportunity costs to the wealth of generations of Americans, still ongoing in a Govt that intervenes in markets & costs way too much.

The Commerce, Gen'l Welfare & Equal protection clauses were re-interperated by judicial fiat to further enable an unlimited Govt for and by the corporate, social (media/academe) and Govt elites.

For almost a century now our great public "educators" have indoctrinated generations into believing that Laissez-Faire capitalism was the main source of America's greatest problems, when in fact it was over-reaching Govt in every respect.

A great read that should cause even leftists to reconsider the above cancer of anti-capitalism is well told by Ray Childs in his intellectually honest essay "Big Business and the Rise of American Statism", which I heartily commend to all: http://praxeology.net/RC-BRS.htm


47 posted on 11/29/2005 9:54:01 AM PST by Marxbites
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To: Eaglewatcher

BUMP!!


72 posted on 12/01/2005 1:06:38 PM PST by Jimbaugh (Fear the Base !!!)
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