Christians can't afford to oppose evolution [says evangelical-biologist]

Chicago Tribune ^ | 27 November 2005 | Richard Colling

[PatrickHenry]

The fuel driving this science education debate is easy to understand. Scientists are suspicious that Christians are trying to insert religious beliefs into science.

They recognize that science must be free, not subject to religious veto. On the other hand, many Christians fear that science is bent on removing God from the picture altogether, beginning in the science classroom--a direction unacceptable to them.

They recognize that when scientists make definitive pronouncements regarding ultimate causes, the legitimate boundaries of science have been exceeded. For these Christians, intelligent design seems to provide protection against a perceived assault from science.

But does it really lend protection? Or does it supply yet another reason to question Christian credibility?

The science education debate need not be so contentious. If the intelligent design movement was truly about keeping the legitimate plausibility of a creator in the scientific picture, the case would seem quite strong.

Unfortunately, despite claims to the contrary, the Dover version of intelligent design has a different objective: opposition to evolution. And that opposition is becoming an increasing liability for Christians.

The reason for this liability is simple: While a growing array of fossils shows evolution occurring over several billion years, information arising from a variety of other scientific fields is confirming and extending the evolutionary record in thoroughly compelling ways.

The conclusions are crystal clear: Earth is very old. All life is connected. Evolution is a physical and biological reality.

In spite of this information, many Christians remain skeptical, seemingly mired in a naive religious bog that sees evolution as merely a personal opinion, massive scientific ruse or atheistic philosophy.

[curiosity]

mdmathis6:Can science produce a moral standard or a virtue?

Dimensio: No, and this has no bearing on the fact that evolution is not a religion.

Curiosity: Actually, I think it does have a bearing. Religions usually form the basis for moral standards and virtue. That evolution fails to address such questions, therefore, corroborates that it is not a religion.

[metmom]

Evolution is supported by mountains of evidence. No, there is no airtight "proof" but there is no airtight "proof" of anything in science because science does not deal in "proofs".

You know, this is what confuses people; the average person type of people. On one hand, evolutionists state that the ToE is a theory well established enough to be stated as a fact, and on the other hand, they then say that science can't prove anything. So then they are left wondering; If science can't prove anything, then how can it be stated to be a fact? Then how can anything that science does or states be trusted if it can't be proved? The fact that science is constantly revising theories and finding out that "Oops, we were wrong about _______." doesn't help. I'm not saying that this is where I'm coming from; it's just that from your general, non-scientific population it sounds as if scientists are talking out of both sides of their mouths. It just doesn't make sense to most people and it ends up cutting into a scientists credibility. Right or not, that's the way it is.

[Sensei Ern]

"Adam was created on the sixth day and died at 930 years old."

Yes, but until he sinned, he was immortal and thus was ageless. The day he sinned is when he began to age.

[johnnyb_61820]

Yes, I do.

[curiosity]

I think scientists are using the word "proof" differently from the way a layman uses it. When scientists say "proof," they mean it in a mathematical sense, that something follows with certainty from a set of premises.

In the lay sense, something is considered proven when it has enough supporting evidence to remove reasonable doubt. In this lay sense, I think it's fair to say evolution has been proven. We can't say it we know it is true with absolute certainty, but there is no reasonable doubt about it.

[johnnyb_61820]

Got me in what way? Scientists have disagreements. Welcome to the real world.

[johnnyb_61820]

I've got a blog on this if you want to know about it. I introduce most of the concepts in baraminology in the September archive.

[BagelFace]

The argument that "evolution is a religion" in this case was actually more that evolution is a "belief" -- because it was not sufficiently supported by evidence to be otherwise. Thus, there really is no corroboration, only misunderstanding. However, I agree with most of what you've said up to now. (Don't mind me, just observing...)

[THEUPMAN]

Not even individual cells?


All I can tell you is the Bible says that death entered the world when Adam took from the tree.

If that is not correct then the whole thing about sin and death and the need for a Saviour is just another story.

If there was no fall , then we need no Saviour. And the Bible is rubbish. You can't really pick and choose what parts are convenient to believe or you are really just making up your own religion. ( the same mistake the woman made in the garden, she wanted to pick and chose what to believe).

The origin of man ... evolution vs direct creation , that is a fundamental question with completely different foundations and directions.
They can not be brought together.

[metmom]

But making a blanket statement about the honesty of creationists based on the actions of a few is not right. Just because some might still be circulating that story doesn't mean that all are liars. I, for one, never heard of that account before. Even if I did, why should I assume that the person telling me it is lying? That is no way to go through life; suspecting that everything you hear is a lie.

[johnnyb_61820]

Retroviral DNA integration-mechanism and consequences.

. While the PIC is capable of directing integration of the viral DNA into any chromosomal location, different retroviruses have clear preferences for integration in or near particular chromosomal features.

Integration site selection by retroviruses.

In particular, the choice of the integration site is crucial for retroviral replication, since integration at a site incompatible for high-level transcription may impair production of the progeny virus. Integration is not sequence specific, thus all chromosomal sites could potentially host integration events. However, this is not what is observed in vivo, where integrated viruses are preferentially detected in chromatin regions characterized by an open structure, a hallmark of actively transcribed genes. Target site selection might be influenced by several factors, including the function of cellular proteins that interact with integrase, the viral protein that catalyzes the integration reaction.

[Elsie]

Don't take the Bible literally. Jesus said "I am the door". You can't take that literally.

 

OH?

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NIV John 14:6
   Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

 

 

 

NIV John 3:3
   In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "

 

NIV John 3:5
   Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth,  no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

 

NIV John 3:11
  I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

 

NIV John 5:24-25
 24.  "I tell you the truth,  whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
 25.   I tell you the truth,  a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

 

NIV John 8:45-46
 45.  Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
 46.  Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?

 

NIV John 14:6
   Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

NIV Matthew 5:18
   I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

NIV Matthew 5:26
   I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

 

NIV Matthew 6:2
   "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men.  I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

 

NIV Matthew 6:5
   "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.  I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

 

NIV Matthew 6:16
 16.  "When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting.  I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

 

NIV Matthew 8:10
   When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

 

NIV Matthew 10:15
   I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

 

NIV Matthew 10:23
   When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.  I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

NIV Matthew 11:11
   I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

 

NIV Matthew 13:17
   For  I tell you the truth,many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

 

NIV Matthew 16:28
   I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

 

NIV Matthew 17:20
   He replied, "Because you have so little faith.  I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, `Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. "

 

NIV Matthew 18:3
   And he said: "II tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

NIV Matthew 18:13
   And if he finds it,  I tell you the truth,he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.

 

NIV Matthew 18:18
 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

 

NIV Matthew 19:23
   Then Jesus said to his disciples, " I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

NIV Matthew 19:28
   Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

NIV Matthew 21:21
   Jesus replied, " I tell you the truth,if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, `Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

 

NIV Matthew 21:31
   "Which of the two did what his father wanted?"   "The first," they answered.   Jesus said to them,  I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

 

NIV Matthew 23:36
    I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

 

NIV Matthew 24:2
  "Do you see all these things?" he asked. " I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

 

NIV Matthew 24:34
   I tell you the truth, this generation  will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

 

NIV Matthew 24:47
   I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

 

NIV Matthew 25:12
   "But he replied, `I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

 

NIV Matthew 25:40
   "The King will reply, ` I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

 

NIV Matthew 25:45
  "He will reply, ` I tell you the truth,whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

 

NIV Matthew 26:13
   I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."

 

NIV Matthew 26:21
  And while they were eating, he said, " I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."

 

NIV Matthew 26:34
  "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."

 

NIV John 1:14
   The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,  who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

NIV John 1:17
   For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

No, and this has no bearing on the fact that evolution is not a religion.

Then why are you guys on a CURSADE against Christian IDer's and other C types?

[Elsie]

Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)

Maybe not; but it can sure put a guilt trip on financially blessed Christians by emphasising Matt 25!

[metmom]

Not for me anymore. Those people aren't really poor. I lved a couple doors from a Christian woman who used to work for Social Services and we were discussing this very issue one day. She told me of some of the things she had seen and then said something that I'll always remember. That is "These people aren't poor!" And you know, she's right. The three houses down the street from us were all rental propety and the welfare folks would come and go on a regular two year cycle. They were all the same. They had drugs, booze, cigarettes, pets, take out meals, computers, TV's, computer games, cars, bikes, pets, make-up, jewelry,.... They are not really poor. I started doing my helping the poor by giving things to families I knew that were self employed with 4-5 kids and were scraping to get by. The things I gave to the *poor* families on welfare ended up thrown out or laying in the mud, literally. If I hadn't lived seeing it for so many years, I'd probably believe they were poor, too. Not any more. Don't let it put you on a guilt trip. Just be wise in your giving.

[curiosity]

All I can tell you is the Bible says that death entered the world when Adam took from the tree.

It is speaking of spiritual death, not physical death.

If it were physical death, the God would be a liar, for Adam did not physically die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.

Also, if there were no physical death prior to the fall, what was the purpose of the tree of life?

[Mr. Mojo]

Registration required, unfortunately. Happen to have the rest of the article?

[BagelFace]

It is speaking of spiritual death, not physical death. If it were physical death, the God would be a liar, for Adam did not physically die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit. Also, if there were no physical death prior to the fall, what was the purpose of the tree of life?

You've been reduced to blabbering from lack of sleep I'd imagine. That event symbolizes spiritual birth. Further, think "mortality" instead of "death" (that is the second time you slipped semantically). Finally, the third point/question you make lacks clarity. I'm a fan of your posts, but you need to remain cogent or go to sleep.

[jennyp]

Got me in what way? Scientists have disagreements. Welcome to the real world.

I mean I understand what you said.

You don't think there were any transitional species between ancient apes & modern humans, and you cite H. erectus as human. (Agreeing with Wise, who says in the Flores Man study, "Combined with ... other post-Babel humans (e.g. H. erectus, H. neanderthalensis), H. floresiensis suggests...")

If Homo erectus was simply what the humans at Babel looked like, there should be no doubt at all as to what kind of species they were: Homo sapiens. "Homo sapiens erectus", I guess. But if H. erectus was a transitional species between apes & humans, then you should expect to see disagreement between scholars as to what it was. And lo & behold, you do! The creationist scholars I cited all agree that it couldn't possibly be a transitional. Oh no, can't possibly be that. They just can't agree among themselves (some can't even agree with themselves) exactly what kind of transitional it isn't!)

[Junior]

Ever thought that Jesus came to show us how to live?

You see, a literal interpretation of Genesis is completely unsupported by evidence. Period. There is no way around this except to deny reality (which is a good sign of insanity). A more allegorical reading of Genesis, however, does not have this problem, which is why such readings have been embraced by the Roman Catholic church as well as a number of mainline Protestant churches. One need not reject Scripture or its Truth -- one need merely reinterpret it in light of the evidence, which is exactly what the various churches have been doing since the Rennaissance.