Jamaica: Ganja and crime (shocking new suggestion that pot may be related to crime in some way)

The Jamaica Gleaner ^ | November 27, 2005

[Stoat]

Ganja and crime
published: Sunday | November 27, 2005

The scientific debate in Jamaica about the dangers of marijuana use is often obfuscated by a subtle cultural bias based in part on a support of Rastafarians who claim that the herb is a sacramental part of their religious practice, but also by years of its use in folk medicine.

Now comes Dr. Winston De La Haye, director of the detoxification unit at the University Hospital of the West Indies and president of the Psychiatry Association of Jamaica, who believes that the use of ganja may well be a major contributing cause to the level of crime and violence in the society.

Dr. De La Haye points out that marijuana contains tetrahydro cannabinol which has been proven to exacerbate aggressive behaviour. If this is so, and given the wide use of ganja in Jamaica, the doctor's warning certainly deserves serious consideration and further objective assessment.

He contends that the drug can drive a person mad and, with understandable prudence, asks: Why take a chance?

We note that Professor Fred Hickling, another respected expert, while not disagreeing with Dr. De La Haye's bottom line warning about the dangers of using the drug, defuses the argument by listing a number of other social causes of violence such as poverty and despair, a position that can readily be conceded without in any way detracting from what might be a significant breakthrough in lessening the degree of violence in Jamaica.

Other causes of violence there may well be, but if smoking ganja is like throwing gasolene on smouldering coals, the unequivocal condemnation of its use may be worth trying, backed up with a strong public education campaign to bring home to the populace, especially the youngsters, that by smoking ganja, they may be playing with fire in more ways than one.

This suggestion runs counter to the present popular attitude that the use of ganja should be decriminalised, supported by the recommendations of the National Commission on Ganja which was set up in November 2000.

But in light of Dr. De La Haye's pronouncement, a renewed debate about marijuana use would seem to be in order, one that is non-emotional and focused, not on the general question of whether marijuana is good or bad, but whether it is indeed a contributory cause to violent behaviour.

Certainly there has developed in Jamaica an almost knee-jerk violent reaction to 'dissing' or other relatively minor provocations which needs some explanation. Dr. De La Haye has provided one such possible reason and we think his warning should be heeded.

[mugs99]

I said verifiable data...not unsubstantiated propaganda from a DEA info/fact website. Where are the bodies? How many deaths? Can you name even one person who has died from marijuana?
.

[eleni121]

Oh gee whiz I forgot to assemble data from the potheads at NRML.

[mugs99]

ROFL!
In other words, you can't come up with one single death.
You claim thousands have died and you link to a propaganda site that contains no data to verify any of the claims made on that propaganda page. Even that propaganda site does not claim any marijuana deaths.

Where do you get your information?

[rasblue]

I don't know if this is true. In Toronto the Jamacians have basically brought these same gang wars there. Same gangs, same families, etc. I doubt its marijuana. More likely fatherless families.

[halfright]

I believe alcohol was omitted from your list...

[halfright]

Since "smoking pot" is, in fact, a crime, then those who "smoke pot" are criminals.


Man I feel your pain.....Speeders are the same way....You just can't tell them anything....criminals all.....traffic enforcement laws are not a suggestion....they are laws in the motor vehicle code.
Ignoring them makes you a criminal. /sar off

[JTN]

Since "smoking pot" is, in fact, a crime, then those who "smoke pot" are criminals.

If you'll remember, the subject of the thread was a purported link between marijuana and violent crime in Jamaica. Hemingway's Ghost was pointing out that there are other obvious causes, such as poverty. The fact that not all poor people become criminals does nothing to change his point, which is a good one. When he said that not all pot smokers become criminals, he was saying that they don't all become thieves and murderers.

What's going on is that the murder/homicide rate in the US correlates best with the percentage of young men 18 to 25 present in the population. Number of young guys goes up, the rate goes up. Number of young guys goes down, the rate goes down.

Wow, the number of males age 18 to 25 took a real dive after 1933, didn't it?

Since when has MJ use in Nederland dropped below that of the US?

Since always.

What has been the result of legalizing marijuana? Is everyone getting stoned? No. In America today 38 percent of adolescents have smoked pot — in Holland, it's only 20 percent.

What Amsterdam police did was take the glamour out of drug use, explains Judge Gray. The Dutch minister of health has said, "We've succeeded in making pot boring."

Not a real good argument. After all, sex with your sister was legal for far longer than it's been illegal.

I think that Paxmacian's point was that in spite of marijuana's legal status, the U.S. wasn't a nation of stoners ripe for conquer by a foreign power.

"nearly" does not mean "same as" or "higher than".

The rates of alcohol consumption were increasing, and probably would have surpassed pre-prohibition levels, had it not been repealed.

The numbers you show are not rates either ~ but the population increased in that period.

I suppose this misunderstanding is my fault for forgetting to label the charts.

Per Capita Consumption of Alcoholic Beverages (Gallons of Pure Alcohol) 1910-1929.

Total Expenditure on Distilled Spirts as a Percentage of Total Alcohol Sales (1890-1960)

1. Mandatory drug testing for all paid employees of 501(c) tax-exempt corporations as a condition in the IRS Code to have “non-profit” status. 2. Mandatory drug testing as an Occupational Health and Safety statute for any employment in the United States. 3. Mandatory drug testing for any license to operate motor vehicles (including quads, motorcycles, etc.), aircraft and boats (or water craft). 4. Mandatory drug testing for any professional license.

Well, I see absolutely no 5th amendment problems with that.

[JTN]

Oh, but pot smoking is a crime, so by definition pot smokers are criminals. You must be some kind of sex pervert not to see that.

Logic-based arguments like these are why FR is rightly labeled sometimes an online lunatic asylum.

You realize I was joking, right? Although muawiyah repeated that "logic-based" argument exactly later on.

[muawiyah]

Public Spirited Citizen: "Officer, shoot that roach outta' his hand."

Cop: "Naw, can't do it ~ once he's smoking it, he's no longer in possession of it."

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

How stupid do you think your opposition is?

[muawiyah]

Same reason folks have outlawed having sex with your sister.

[muawiyah]

Sounds like blowing smoke turned you into a hardcore Democrat.

[muawiyah]

Crime occurs when folks break the law.

BTW, there are a sufficiency of local laws against MJ use. What is it that's so "big government" about that?

Look here, I think the weed has gotten to you ~ it isn't that you are irrational ~ just that there's nothing rational in anything you say. It's like you can't handle any idea that goes more than two steps ahead.

This is a bad sign.

[muawiyah]

The charts and graphs your little friend provided demonstrated that Prohibition reduced the gross amout of booze consumed, but it also reduced the rate of consumption.

They no longer exist?

[muawiyah]

The Kennedy fortune didn't stop growing. In fact, it's now into environmentalism scams.

[muawiyah]

Glad you bothered digging through Dutch statistics. Irrespective of our relative stances on any number of issues, you have to recall every single time that the Dutch government publishes incorrect statitics.

They can't be trusted.

[muawiyah]

Why is it the MJ advoctes require so many interpreters? Certainly this powerful herb gives them the silver tongues of professional orators (/sarc).

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Alcohol is a drug... refer back to your point...

[JTN]

Why is it the MJ advoctes require so many interpreters? Certainly this powerful herb gives them the silver tongues of professional orators (/sarc)

A better question is "Why was the point so obvious to me, yet you needed to have it spelled out for you?"

[muawiyah]

Must be the MJ giving you the focus.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

1. Mandatory drug testing for all paid employees of 501(c) tax-exempt corporations as a condition in the IRS Code to have “non-profit” status.

2. Mandatory drug testing as an Occupational Health and Safety statute for any employment in the United States.

3. Mandatory drug testing for any license to operate motor vehicles (including quads, motorcycles, etc.), aircraft and boats (or water craft).

4. Mandatory drug testing for any professional license.

Well, I see absolutely no 5th amendment problems with that.

Neither do I...

I am preserving the liberty and lives of people who want to work in a safe environment, get rid of the liberty restricting leftist non-profits, and preserve the liberty of people who fly in airplanes, ride in motor vehicles, walk along the streets and ride bicycles... AND IT IS ALL DONE WITH DUE PROCESS THROUGH LEGISLATION!!!

I am not accusing someone of a crime or compelling them to do anything. The druggies can make their choices and so can everybody else!