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Abe Lincoln and the media

Posted on 11/26/2005 9:36:29 PM PST by Mier

While all the anti war cowards were screaming for Bush to cut and run and our willing accomplice main stream media acting like kids in a candy store. I heard someone on talk radio say that during the civil war Lincoln had his media detracters thrown in the bottom of a war ship until the war was over. But I can't find any facts on-line to back it up. Does any one know where I might go to find information on this? I mentioned this to a (left wing co-worker) and he thinks I made it up. I sure would like to prove him wrong! Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abelincoln; american; constitutionstomper; despot; dishonestabe; dixie; dixielost; greydiaperbabies; honestabe; kinglincoln; rebellion; slavers; tyrant; union; victory
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To: Non-Sequitur
"The problem with your link is that if you read it closely Adams is admitting that there is no concrete evidence that supports the claim that Lincoln issued an arrest warrant for Taney. No support in the archives of the U.S. Marshal;s Service. No support in the Lieber papers. Nothing but opinion and speculation and paranoid fears without justification"

You seem to have ignored the personal papers of Federal Marshall Ward Hill Laman, located at the the Huntington library in Pasadena.

You also ignored Baltimore Mayor George Brown's book regarding the conversation he had with Chief Justice Taney following the Merryman decision. Mr. Taney states to Brown "He then told me that he knew his own imprisonment had been a matter of consultation, but the danger had passed, and he warned me from information he had received, that my time would come.".

What about Justice Curtis's reference to Lincoln's plan to arrest the Chief Justice: "He wrote the dissenting opinion in Dred Scott, which Lincoln carried in his pocket while debating with Stephen A. Douglas. He resigned from the Court after a dispute with Taney over that case. Yet he admired the Chief Justice for his Merryman decision, and makes reference to the plan to arrest Taney, calling it a "Great Crime."".

As Mr. Adams states "And so the case stands, the Presidential warrant to arrest the Chief Justice is on solid ground. It represents just one more tough nut the apologists and gate keepers have to live with; it cannot be swept under the rug, so to speak, as a fabrication.".

61 posted on 11/27/2005 10:01:28 PM PST by Rabble (Just When is John F sKerry going to release his USNR military records ?)
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To: rustbucket
Mobs in some cases; army troops in others.

Which cases were which?

"In reply I have to state that if you will furnish me with the names of one or two persons whose arrest would be likely to produce a proper effect upon the course of that paper I will communicate a decision upon the subject."

What was that decision? Was anyone actually arrested?

62 posted on 11/28/2005 3:33:38 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: TexConfederate1861
Have you checked his bibliography? Most of his writings I have read have clear documented sources.

Well the idiot claim of the 300 papers was in the DiLusional column that Rustbucket attached a link to. That had no sources at all, just Tommy's lies.

63 posted on 11/28/2005 3:35:59 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
The psychopath John Brown, Senator Lane & his red legs begat the Partisan rangers, and Bloody Bill had a bit of reason for being a bit off in the head after the unionists murdered his father & sister.

The power of the southron myth machine. Anderson's father was killed by a man named Arthur Baker in self defense. Baker had turned Bill and Jim in for stealing horses and Anderson senior went after him with a shotgun. Baker was the better shot. Bloody Bill later trapped Baker in his store and burned him alive. Nice guy, all in all. The death of Anderson's sister was accidental.

Face it, Missouri was our own Balkans war, for 10 years before, and 20 years after the civil war, neighbors were murdering neighbors with unrelenting hatred.

But it seems that you would have us believe that all the hatred was on the Union side.

64 posted on 11/28/2005 3:45:10 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: TexConfederate1861
Mostly men, very fewboys, and hell YES it was justified! The "redlegs" sure didn't have a problem with murdering Southerners of any age! (or gender)

So if you have absolutely no problem with the murder of innocent Unionists then how can you complain about the murder of southerners?

65 posted on 11/28/2005 3:46:24 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
You decry the Lawrence Kansas debacle, well, payback is a bitch

So if it's OK to kill innocent Unionists then it must also be OK to kill innocent Southern supporters. What's good for the goose must also be good for the gander.

66 posted on 11/28/2005 3:48:08 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Rabble
You seem to have ignored the personal papers of Federal Marshall Ward Hill Laman, located at the the Huntington library in Pasadena.

No, just the fact that there is nothing in Lamon's papers providing that evidence. The story of the Taney arrest warrant first appeared in an edition of Lamon's book, which was ghost written by the way. There is no warrant, there is no documentation that such a warrant was issued. There is no evidence that Lincoln ordered warrants on anyone else. Taney never spent a minute in jail. There is simply nothing which supports the claim.

You also ignored Baltimore Mayor George Brown's book regarding the conversation he had with Chief Justice Taney following the Merryman decision. Mr. Taney states to Brown "He then told me that he knew his own imprisonment had been a matter of consultation, but the danger had passed, and he warned me from information he had received, that my time would come.".

Taney related his paranoid fears to several people. But I would ask who told Taney that his imprisonment had been discussed. Lamon would have us believe that only he and Lincoln were in on the warrant, who told Taney? Taney was convinced that he would suffer for the Merriman decision, that doesn't mean that such plans were ever contemplated.

What about Justice Curtis's reference to Lincoln's plan to arrest the Chief Justice: "He wrote the dissenting opinion in Dred Scott, which Lincoln carried in his pocket while debating with Stephen A. Douglas. He resigned from the Court after a dispute with Taney over that case. Yet he admired the Chief Justice for his Merryman decision, and makes reference to the plan to arrest Taney, calling it a "Great Crime."".

One would assume that the source for the Taney arrest threat was Taney himself. And again, just because Taney was convinced he would be arrested doesn't mean it was planned. Taney remained on the bench until his death.

As Mr. Adams states "And so the case stands, the Presidential warrant to arrest the Chief Justice is on solid ground. It represents just one more tough nut the apologists and gate keepers have to live with; it cannot be swept under the rug, so to speak, as a fabrication.".

Adams's "solid ground" is what the courts would call hearsay, and would be thrown out of any court in the land. Adams admits there is no concrete evidence, just stories. But absence of evidence has never stopped men like Adams and DiLorenzo from making their claims.

67 posted on 11/28/2005 4:01:15 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: BillyBoy

Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Henry Knox were all "Yankees." Where would the nation be without them?


68 posted on 11/28/2005 5:45:17 AM PST by LS
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To: Rabble
Painting Hitler with a broad brush is a pretty smart move.

I have seen NOTHING out of Lew Rockwell or ANY here who ascribe to his views to suggest anything less than he is a racist. So far, every discussion, if carried on long enough, with a supporter of Rockwells, ends in a statement like, "Well, slavery wasn't so bad." End of argument.

69 posted on 11/28/2005 5:49:08 AM PST by LS
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To: Non-Sequitur
Whatever, the feud does not recognize logic, fear will overcome reason every time.
70 posted on 11/28/2005 8:08:08 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Or, as you so imply, the southerners were dirty SOB's that should have been exterminated? You and Sherman would have been in total agreement. His and other Northerner's ideas were what the war was really about, "GREED". Invade the south, subjugate, kill, deport the people and colonize it with Yankees.


Excerpts from Sherman's letter to his brother of Aug. 13, 1862:

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ga/topic/military/CivilWar/shermanscheme.htm

"Of course I approve the confiscation act, and would be willing to revolutionize the government so as to amend that article of the Constitution which forbids the forfeiture of land to the heirs. My full belief is, we must colonize the country de novo, beginning with Kentucky and Tennessee, and should remove 4,000,000 of our people at once south of the Ohio River, taking the farms and plantations of the Rebels. I deplore the war as much as ever, but if the thing has to be done, let the means be adequate."


"We must colonize and settle as we go South, for in Missouri there is as much strife as ever."

"Enemies must be killed or transported to some other country."


71 posted on 11/28/2005 8:27:03 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Was anyone actually arrested?

Not that I could find. Apparently excluding the National Zeitung from the mails had the effect of shutting the paper down so the editors weren't arrested. It ceased publication shortly after being excluded from the mails.

POST-OFFICE DEPARTMENT, September 14, 1861.

Honorable WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.

SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your notes of the 12th and 14th instant and to inform you that on the day of the receipt of your first note an order was made excluding the National Zeitung from the mails and the postmaster of New York instructed to execute the order. The circulation through the mails of the Staats Zeitung has not been prohibited.

I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

JOHN A. KASSSON,
Acting Postmaster-General

I take it that this is the sort of thing you are looking for:

WASHINGTON, September 2, 1861.

ROBERT MURRAY, U. S. Marshal:

Arrest the editor of the Greenport Republican Watchman and send him to Fort Lafayette and deliver him into the custody of Colonel Martin Burke. If he has left home for Syracuse arrest him anywhere on the road where he can be found.

WILLIAM H. SEWARD.

72 posted on 11/28/2005 8:35:06 AM PST by rustbucket
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To: Non-Sequitur
Get your facts straight. Father was killed by a unionist from a long festering dispute. Bill did just deserts to the the men who did the deed.

Excerpt from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_T._Anderson#Anderson_as_a_guerilla

"Bill Anderson Sr. was killed in 1862 by a neighbor over an ongoing dispute. William Anderson and his brother, Jim, later confronted the neighbor, killing him and another man."

http://www.parismo.org/~nblock/anderson.htm

"In March 1862, Bill's father was murdered by Pro-Northern neighbors in some type of dispute."
73 posted on 11/28/2005 8:41:02 AM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Non-Sequitur; PeaRidge
[me] Mobs in some cases; army troops in others.

[you] Which cases were which?

Too lazy to look in the link I provided? Here is what they cited:

On February 23, 1863, the Davenport Daily Gazette in Iowa reported that some seventy-five convalescent soldiers from a near-by military hospital entered the office of the Keokuk, Iowa Constitution, wrecked the presses and dumped the type out the window. (65) In the spring of 1863, the Crisis and the Marietta, Ohio Republican, a Democratic paper, suffered damages at the hands of a mob of soldiers. (66) The next year a number of other newspapers in the Midwest, including the Mahoning, Ohio Sentinel, Lancaster, Ohio Eagle, Dayton Empire, Fremont Messenger, and the Chester, Illinois Picket Guard experienced similar visitations. (67)

Here is confirmation from another site that the Picket Guard was destroyed by soldiers:

In 1864 soldiers stationed in Cairo marched a short distance from their camp to destroy the press and offices of the Chester Picket Guard, a persistent critic of the war and administration.

It is unclear from the information I found what kinds of pro-Union mobs destroyed the Easton paper and tarred and feathered the Massachusetts editor. I posted the exact wording about those incidents that I found on the web.

I also posted the exact wording I found about the Bloomington Times -- that was listed as a pro-Union mob. I also quoted PeaRidge's post that stated a mob of soldiers demolished the offices of the Democratic Standard in DC and a Unionist mob destroyed the printing facilities of the Bangor Democrat.

Apparently it wasn't very safe to say anything against Lincoln in the North.

74 posted on 11/28/2005 9:10:02 AM PST by rustbucket
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To: BillyBoy

Oh Yea...you are really funny....NOT.
But then again, you are from Illinois, so why should i expect anything different.


75 posted on 11/28/2005 11:03:46 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Non-Sequitur

Post the link, I will try and find some for you.


76 posted on 11/28/2005 11:05:00 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Non-Sequitur

Men of fighting age weren't "innocent"......


77 posted on 11/28/2005 11:06:10 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: LS

Read the slave narratives. It was wrong, but not nearly as bad as you "REVISIONIST"of History types would have everyone believe....


78 posted on 11/28/2005 11:08:24 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: TexConfederate1861
Actually, if you read those narratives, you are STUNNED that a civilized nation professing freedom put up with such an abominable institution as long as we did.

But you are inching closer to saying, "It wasn't all that bad," as i expected. I have yet to see a neo-Confederate revisionist who didn't secretly approve of slavery.

79 posted on 11/28/2005 11:31:51 AM PST by LS
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To: Mier
I heard someone on talk radio say that during the civil war Lincoln had his media detracters thrown in the bottom of a war ship until the war was over.

One of many myths and over exaggerations of the Lost Cause School of historical distortion and the fevered moonbats at sites like Lou Rocksmell.com. The only "journalists" bothered by the Lincoln administration were those who advocated soldiers desert their posts or who actively supported the Confederate cause.

There was the celebrated Clemet Vallingham arrest, (a former congressmen and newspaper owner in Ohio) who was openly sympathetic with the Confederates. Local military authorities arrested him for sedition and Lincoln ordered him to be released --- behind Confederate lines where he belonged. He ended up in Canada working directly with Confederate agents there. There was another case where Union soldiers broke into an anti-war (not pro-Confederate) newspaper office and stole all of the paper's printing equipment. Their commanders ordered them to return it. No one was kept locked in the bottom of warships for the duration.

As to the wisdom of and conduct of the war, the majority of the "mainstream press" of the day was far harder and more critical of the Lincoln administration than they are being on Bush, and nothing was done to them. It's funny how the same propagandists at Lou Rockwell who write that Lincoln stamped out freedom of the press will also cite all the northern newspaper articles critical of Lincoln and the war as proof that Lincoln "dragged" the north into a war it didn't want. Like all moonbats, logical consistency is not one of their strong points.

Now if you want examples of real restraints on the media and 1st amendment rights, you have to go to the Wilson administration during WWI. For serious censorship and media manipulation, see the Roosevelt administration during WWII.

80 posted on 11/28/2005 11:36:07 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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