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To: CitizenUSA
Couple of questions: When did God ever allow people to 'evolve' His will? What scripture allows for "pastors" and human-created organizations?

It's a basic difference in respect for God's word and His divine authority. "I think" or "I don't believe it's inherently evil" is the wrong standard... and puts someone else in His place of authority.

32 posted on 11/24/2005 8:46:08 PM PST by mikeus_maximus (Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still evil.)
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To: mikeus_maximus

Ephesians 4:11-12 plus look at the Pastoral Epistles


33 posted on 11/24/2005 9:25:30 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America)
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To: mikeus_maximus

mikeus_maximus wrote: "When did God ever allow people to 'evolve' His will?"

He didn't. As for the phrase, "I think," I think it would be obvious. Since I'm a human and not God, the words I post are my own thoughts, not His. Even if my words and thoughts are based on the Bible or inspired by the Holy Spirit, it's still correct to say, "I think" or "I believe," since I'm the one who is thinking them.

As for human organizations, I don't see where they are unbiblical. Based on my readings, I think (there it is again) they are not only allowed but encouraged! Scripture is good enough justification for me:

ACT 14:23 Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and,
with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put
their trust.

15:2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with
them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers,
to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose
some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.

23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your
brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings.

16:4 As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions
reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

20:17 From Miletus, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church.

1TI 4:14 Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic
message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

5:17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of
double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

18 For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out
the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by
two or three witnesses.

TIT 1:5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out
what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed
you.

6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose
children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and
disobedient.

7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--
not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent,
not pursuing dishonest gain.

8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-
controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.

9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so
that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose
it.

JAM 5:14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church
to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

1PE 5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of
Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be
revealed:

2 Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as
overseers--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants
you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;

3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the
flock.

4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory
that will never fade away.

5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of
you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God
opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."


34 posted on 11/24/2005 9:31:43 PM PST by CitizenUSA
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