Posted on 11/23/2005 10:30:31 AM PST by AZRepublican
In May of this year, a Jonesboro student gave a prayer during a high school graduation ceremony at the Arkansas State University Convocation Center. During the prayer, which lasted four minutes, she gave an “altar call” to the community, asking those in the audience to come forward to accept Jesus Christ.
“In the closing moments of this service, if you would like to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, here's your chance,” said senior Jessica Reed in a May 20, 2005 taped video of JHS graduation ceremonies.
“We were contacted sometime after that by the American Civil Liberties Union that they felt like there had been a violation of the First Amendment, separation of church and state with regard to a prayer,” said Jonesboro Public Schools Attorney Donn Mixon.
And now the ACLU is looking for a plaintiff in a case against Jonesboro High School. In a letter written by the Arkansas ACLU executive director Rita Sklar, the event is described as a “blatant display of contempt for the First Amendment.”
(Excerpt) Read more at kait8.com ...
An invitation to an altar call, right smack dab in the middle of a public school graduation ceremony is not "a brief statement" and it goes beyond "professing their faith." It is evangelization and prosyltezation. It does not belong in this setting.
Everyone keeps givng clear counterexamples, but no one wants to admit that they would feel the other way if a Wiccan or Muslim was inviting people to convert while you were just waiting to catch a photo of your son getting his diploma.
I cant believe that the PC types like yourself are so damn offended by someone showing their faith. I suspect that you are all for tolerance and diveristy mantra except for Christians?
Listen, I've said three times, now four, otherwise. If you want to discuss this with me, please read what I have said. I am not the strawman you insist on beating up.
SD
I might agree that it was not the appropriate venue for this type of activity but that only makes it inappropriate, not illegal. The ACLU is simply wrong again.
If you agree that she should be stopped from doing this altar call, what level of violence should the government use against her to make her submit and conform?
While I do not believe it is against the laws of the country, it is against the law of good taste. I never stated that it was against the law, just low class.
Honestly, it makes me wonder if she has Aspergers Syndrome. Some things are totally inappropriate in society.
Hey my niece is Wiccan. Asking other attendees to join her coven is appropriate right???
If the school knew about this, or permitted it, that would be where any illegalities lie. The girl is a free person. It's not illegal to make an ass out of yourself.
My defense is not of the ACLU but of the notion that a graduation ceremony is for all students and that it is rude and improper to turn it into a sectarian evangelical event.
It's surprising and sad how many think otherwise.
If you agree that she should be stopped from doing this altar call, what level of violence should the government use against her to make her submit and conform?
The school or the MC should have just politely ended her speech. Perhaps with a joking apology for her "zeal."
SD
They extort money by filing frivolous lawsuits. And they can 'prosecute' nothing, they are not law enforcement. I agree with you that they should not be non-profit.
Well, not in those exact words. But there is a proscription against displaying favoritism for one religion over another. Again, not in those exact words. But it's there, in that part about "no law respecting an establishment of religion".
Time to get over yourself and quit acting like the world centers around you.
Actually, I might suggest the same to you. Being Christian myself, I'm not offended by her call at all. I just think it was an inappropriate place to do it, because it wasn't a Christian event, it was a public graduation.
America is 90% Christian which means that we make acceptance for other religions
LOL... that's the same sort of thing the Saudis say about religious freedom, including that silly part about how we Christians gratuitously allow others to practice their religion. Does that make my Jewish best buddy a "Christian" version of dhimmi?
but that doesnt mean we cant practice our own in any venue we please.
Hey man, you can handle snakes or wear a signboard around Public Square warning everybody to "Repent, the end is near" till the proverbial cows come home, for all I care. But you're not going to convince anybody outside of your chosen circle of much of anything. But then you need to talk to people besides the folks you go to church with once in awhile in order to understand that.
And although you have your right to freedom of expression, you don't have the right to a publicly-funded venue for your private opinions.
The girl was out of line for trying to turn an official public school function into a sectarian religious service, and the school officials who were present were out of line for not stopping it on the spot. A prayer is one thing, as long as the school is discriminating between what religions are represented among students who wish to exercise their First Amendment right via prayers. But the "altar call" was crossing the line. However, the school district has admitted it was wrong, and said it won't happen again. Case closed.
Not surprising that the ACLU is having trouble finding a single recruit to serve as plaintiff. To have standing, the plaintiff would almost certainly have to be a local taxpayer, as high school graduation ceremonies are attended mostly by parents and siblings of the graduates. So the ACLU is trying to convince somebody who pays taxes to fund that school district, to start a legal proceeding that will waste lots of the school district's money, without having the slightest effect on future policies or activities. The case would be thrown out of court as moot anyway.
LOL! Which is the entire problem here. You get phony, plantiff-shopping cases forcing everyone else to lose their free excercise and speech rights.
" But it's there, in that part about "no law respecting an establishment of religion"."
Or did you forget the part about the "FREE PRACTICE THEREOF"
Please dont try to play the word game with me - the constitution is clear, the Bill of Rights, the federalist papers and all other historical documents show without refute that this is nation founded on Judeo Christian doctrine/beliefs. Suggesting anything else weakens your argument.
You seem to be taking the issue in a different direction, rather the subjugation of minorities.
If the issue is the First Amendment a Muslim girl has the same right to make a call for Shahadah as this girl does to make an altar call. Either both are appropriate, or neither are. Majority status is irrelevant.
The girl was not authorized by the school to do what she did, and the school could not legally have authorized her to do it. It would be different if the school had announced in advance that students of any religion (including atheism) were invited to participate in a function where they could proselytize the audience. Then the school would have been treating all religious beliefs equally, and there should be no problem with an event like that. But that's not what happened here. How would you like it if you went to your child's public high school graduation, and the program included one prayer only, which was a highly sectarian Muslim prayer, capped by the student inviting the audience to join her in reciting the words that constitute a conversion to Islam (which per many brands of Islam, is irrevocable under penalty of death)?
That would seem to be the case. I can't imagine what the asked for remedy would be here.
" LOL... that's the same sort of thing the Saudis say about religious freedom"
Come on the Saudis dont make room for any other religion - saying it is one thing showing it is another. No one would refute that Christians by and large are one of the most tolerant of all religions. Only Christians are attacked today. I know pull out the my best friend is Jewish card so that you can claim anti-semitism - it just doesnt fly with the facts. The Jews have nothing to fear from true Christians - why they are so afraid is understandable but Hitler was not a Christian - period.
"you don't have the right to a publicly-funded venue for your private opinions"
Is that so, hmmm lets see does JJ or Sharpton or Farakahn or any other organization have that right?
What are you talking about man? Can you name a single publically funded venue that the speaker did not express their private opinions? Come on name one??????? Cat got your tongue huh????
Thanks, that tells me all I need to know. You're the majority and you'll do whatever the hell you want.
This is why the idea of a republican form of gov't protecting the rights of all equally was a novel development in mankind's history. Cause those who understand it are few.
SD
Well, at my sons graduation the veledictorian gave a speech to the rythm of Green eggs and ham. A student giving a speech on WHATEVER is covered by the 1st amendment. If the school administrators had given an alter call then they might have a leg to stand on. This was a student and not a member of the staff. I thought that Green Eggs and Ham was cheesy and stupid but I didn't call the ACLU.
Majority status is not irrelevant, if that is the case the minority status should have equal power in govt. but it does not. The democrats dont have more power than the republicans in the house. Their will is not superior to the republicans (even though it appears that way).
Minority opinion in a democracy is allowed equal access but not equal status, otherwise you have anarchy and all would be considered equal regardless of the numbers.
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