GM to cut 30,000 jobs

Reuters, Bloomberg | 21 Nov, 2005 | Self

[bill1952]

Right to work state or not, any big 3 auto plant in USA is automatically going to be a UAW plant.

Which would mean that the UAW would become irrelevant in that state.

As soon as they went on strike, the workers would be replaced, and its kind of hard to stay out on strike when you watch hundreds of people driving to work and doing your job.

[bill1952]

WTF are you talking about? Becoming Democrats??
Where have you been for the last 40 years?

They are, with exceptions, overwhelmingly lifetime Democratic voters now, then and tomorrow.

It is only when they see the bitter fruits of a failed policy that there is any hope at all.
Kind of like an alcoholic having to reach rock bottom before becoming sober, and there won't be many of those.

[Beagle8U]

"As soon as they went on strike, the workers would be replaced, and its kind of hard to stay out on strike when you watch hundreds of people driving to work and doing your job."

All of the Big-3 companies that sign a contract with the UAW, sign on to an industry wide master agreement. They simply wouldn't strike at the plant in the right to work state, they would strike at all the other plants. The companies screwed themselves by ever letting the union in anywhere.

Go to a video store and rent the documentary "American Dream". Its about what the UNION did to the Hormel workers in Minnesota, then you may understand what I'm talking about.

The International Union controls every Local, and every contract. They can oust even their own union workers if they don't get what they want.

Thats why the Japanese companies will never let a union in them, they'll close a plant first.

[bill1952]

You are right about that master agreement. Good point.

Fact is, it has to go, and bankruptcy would be a good start to changing it.

I feel that international union control of the American workplace is very, very bad for America, as these are basically Communist/Socialist organizations that do not like our systems.

[gotribe]

Until GM starts making cars at least as good as the low-price Hyundai and offers a 10-year / 100,000 mi. warranty to boot, they're not going to be able to compete. If you want a story about how a low-quality auto became a high-quality auto, look at Hyundai. Why can't GM do what the Koreans have done?

[Beagle8U]

" look at Hyundai. Why can't GM do what the Koreans have done?"

Does Hyundai have to deal with a UAW contract ?

The Unions have destroyed the American MFG. Industry and everything else they get their grubby hands on, like the Pubic Education system.

[papasmurf]

You're right. Case in point...My wife, a German import herself, always had a Mercedes. When we moved back here to the US she got a Chevy, broke down a lot, got a new Chevy, broke down a lot. So, needing a car fast, we went to the Hyundai dealership by our house a bought an Accent puddle jumper, thinking it was only till she got hers fixed and sold. BUT, it was a good little car so she kept it till she got her 100k on it. Since then she's had an Sonata (87k) and Santa Fe (119k), and now she has the XG350L. She drives about 60k a year. None of these have been in the shop for anything with one exception...the XG had a brake rotor service bulletin and they replaced all 4 rotors and pads (no charge of course). Hyundai knows how to treat a good customer, too. Her Hyundai loyalty program includes free GAP, 10 yr.s bumper to bumper warranty, the lowest Int. rate they offer (0.9%), and she gets the rebates, if any, applied. Kinda' makes up for the fact they have terrible resale.
Hyundai also has dealer incentives in place to reward the dealers for outstanding after the sale customer service..just look at the JD Power ratings.
I could go on, but, the point is GM, Ford, and DiChry have brought their problems on themselves. They have sold out to greed, pure and simple. The answer, the ONLY answer, is to break the union's stronghold, and get back to the basics of running a long term business. Otherwise they will re-visit this issue again, and again, and again.

[Rockitz]

Pay no attention to that depression behind the curtain!

[gotribe]

They may have terrible resale today, but that'll soon be a thing of the past, as people en masse learn just how solid they are.

[oceanview]

not the rank and file.

drive middle class private sector workers into lower paying service jobs, where they need government assistance to make up for what they can no longer earn - or see them take government employment - you'll make a 90+% Dem voting block out of them.

[JerseyHighlander]

http://www.toxiclegacy.com/

Ford's Mahwah plant has created serious long term environmental problems throughout the region.

[Alberta's Child]

Ford's Mahwah plant has created serious long term environmental problems throughout the region.

No, it hasn't. The @ssholes who run the waste disposal industry from top to bottom in New Jersey have created serious long-term environmental problems throughout the region. Even that website you linked explicitly says that there is no indication that Ford had any knowledge of how its contractors dealt with the waste that was removed from the Mahwah plant.

Ford was no different than any other industrial producer in northern New Jersey over the last 50 years. Northern New Jersey is pretty much large contamination site, and if all the sordid facts about the region's history ever come to light you could probably justify two intriguing courses of action: 1) large-scale execution of public officials at all levels of government, and 2) complete ethnic cleansing of the families of every Sicilian immigrant who came through Ellis Island and settled in the New York City area.

[Old_Mil]

The problem I have is that even an executive is human. He has the very same 24 hours in any given day and I find it ludicrous and, again, I'll be redundant, sinful, when the top dogs make a salary that is many millions x what the worker makes. When you show me the human that can work an infinite number of hours and has an infinite brain, then I'll believe there is a humanbeing worth some of these salaries/bonuses/perks.

Are you suggesting that we would be better served outsourcing our management jobs? After all, I'm sure that Chinese business majors will run our MNCs from Beijing for a mere fraction of what our 7 and 8 figure execs believe they are worth...

[Born to Conserve]

Does anyone know what the typical income and benefits were for these folks?

[Clemenza]

Take a look at the areas where unions are the strongest and you will see that they are all Democratic strongholds.

Sorry, but nobody deserves $65 an hour in salary and benefits for polishing a screw just to "protect the middle class." Don't get me started on the left-side-of-the-bell-curve morons who get paid $70,000 on Lawn Guyland to pick up garbage (I prefer Florida, where they pay legal Haitians $8.5010 an hour) or to write parking tickets.

Nevertheless, GM's problems had more to do with incompetant management in the post-war era than anything else. Out of control unions are a symptom of a much larger problem. A little "creative destruction" in the U.S. auto industry is a good thing.

[gogogodzilla]

Yes!

You're the first person on this thread to realize that GM makes quality cr@p.

The interiors are well made... well-made, cheap, hard, hollow plastic.

And GM automobile suspensions... softer and mushier than goose-down pillow. GM actually thinks people want a car that out of touch with the road.

Not to mention that GM mandated 4-speed automatic transmissions for nearly all of it's models while it's competitors are installing 5-speed, 6-speed, and CVT transmissions.

GM can factually say that it builds reliable cars... Reliable cars that are CR@P! Who in their right mind would buy a low fuel economy, 4-speed automatic transmission, soft suspension, no-feel-for-the-road vehicle for $25-28,000 when they could spend $21-25,000 for one that has a higher fuel economy, 5 or 6-speed automatic transmission, taut suspension, and a real 'feel for the road' vehicle?

There's no competition at all. GM is too blind to even see what the problem is. They think that a 'redesign' is all that's necessary (plus some layoffs and plant closings). Bull-cr@p!

GM's core design philosophy needs to be thrown into the dustbin of history. Add to it the adversarial relationship between management and workers. Throw the unions onto the pyre as well. Then, GM needs to relocate it's vehicle plants to 'right-to-work' states (and take any of it's workers willing to scrap his/her union membership as well as be willing to move). Have management actually come down to the assembly line and learn how to actually build a car and then really build one (that should help ease the worker-management adversarial relations).

This is only a beginning. Far more will need to still be done, but I don't see ANYONE at GM (management or worker) even remotely thinking about these ideas.

[gogogodzilla]

Well, I'd call it cr@p.

Just look at the Chevy Avalanche and compare it to the Honda Ridgline. They both look nearly identical.

And they both look like cr@p.

[gogogodzilla]

Hyundai has it's own problems with the Korean unions. And their unions tend to strike on a yearly basis for more 'goodies'.

Which is why Hyundai recently built a plant in Alabama. Our own workers (in the South) don't tend to strike on a yearly basis.

[MarkeyD]

I hate GM and strongly dislike Ford. Chrysler is starting to grow on me, but I haven't bought yet. I'll take Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. I hate NHV (Noise, Harshness, Vibration).

[globalheater]

No - they all look like a Ford Mondeo...


(no miracle - since the mondeo and the volvo are the same platform)