Replies

[r9etb - "While Hitler may have used parts of the Bible to justify his "master race" theories, it is not true that they were inspired by the Bible.]
[Ichneumon - "This sounds like splitting hairs."]

IMHO, 'r9etb' has a valid argument here.

How so? While the statement standing alone is true (albeit in a hairsplitting way when applied to his original argument, as I pointed out), I don't see how it actually makes for a "valid argument". It doesn't rescue the flaws and holes in his original argument in the way he seemed to think it does.

Furthermore, Hitler did indeed lean on *God* as support for his "ethnic cleansing":

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Hitler's own handwritten notes, drawing an outline of his philosophy:

Hitler divided his study into five sections:

1. The Bible
2. The Aryan
3. His Works
4. The Jew
5. His Work

Under the first section, "The Bible -- Monumental History of Mankind", he lists these topics (among others): "2 human types-- Workers and drones-- Builders and destroyers", "Race Law", "First people's history (based on) the race law-- Eternal course of History".

So it seems that Hitler was actually basing his racial view of mankind on *Biblical* foundations.

Nazi SS belt buckle, with motto "Gott mit uns [God is with us]":

Nazi propaganda paper:

The headline reads, "Declaration of the Higher Clergy/So spoke Jesus Christ". The caption under the cartoon of the marching Hitler Youth reads, "We youth step happily forward facing the sun... With our faith we drive the devil from the land."

Even if the Bible didn't actually "inspire" Hitler's genocide (and I'm not saying it did), that doesn't suddenly validate r9etb's argument, nor undercut my objections to it, since I didn't base any part of my rebuttal on what the Bible did or did not "inspire". My point was that he erred in counting Hitler's genocide among his tally of that of "the godless" -- whether or not Hitler was perverting the teachings of the Bible, and whether or not it was the "inspiration" for his genocide, the fact remains that Hitler was not among the "the godless", he believed in a god and believed that he was acting in the deity's service. No matter how mistaken he might have been in that regard, that doesn't make him an atheist or "godless". He *had* a god.

So did that Aztecs when they sacrificed countless people to the gods, so did the Conquistadors when they slaughtered vast numbers of Mesoamericans, and so on.

And don't bother trying to wave around some version of the "No True Scotsman Fallacy", because that won't wash either.

The simple fact remains that r9etb's "argument" was and still is seriously flawed in the following ways: a) it counts some genocides by "the godful" among those of "the godless", b) it counts *only* genocides by the alleged "godless" while utterly failing to count most of the deaths due to "the godful", and c) it's a stupid metric anyway if one is actually trying to assess the ethics/morals of "the godless" in general, for reasons I've outlined earlier.

So I don't see why you are claiming that r9etb has "a valid argument". It looks pretty shoddy from here.

So I don't see why you are claiming that r9etb has "a valid argument". It looks pretty shoddy from here.

Like I said, it's just my opinion. I may not be as knowledgable as some here, but I do believe I am entitled to my opinion.

In my humble opinion, Hitler was insane. So to say he was inspired by the Bible discounts the fact that he was crazy.

But that's just what I think.

Nazi SS belt buckle, with motto "Gott mit uns [God is with us]"

Minor nitpick: the motto "Gott mit uns" was on the belt buckle of the Wehrmacht which inherited it from the Reichswehr (the Reichswehr IIRC also inherited the motto from pre-WW1 units).
The motto on the SS belt buckle was actually "Meine Ehre heisst Treue".

Nice cherry picking on Hitler.

But if you actually dig a bit deeper, you'll run into other stuff...

The quote "One is either a German or a Christian, you cannot be both" (which the Brits turned into a propaganda poster juxtaposed with a photo of bombed-out city buildings...)

The contents of some Nazi-era school textbooks, with nice lines like "Jesus and Hitler were both persecuted; but while Jesus was crucified, Hitler went on to become chancellor"

The persecution of the Jews (read up on the Old Testament promises to Abraham about how God expected the Jews to be treated; or the New Testament writings of Paul about the Jews being subjected to a temporary hardening of their hearts, in order that God show mercy on goyim as well :-)

etc.

The cheap shots are unbecoming of you...

Cheers!