Ultra-sensitive microscope reveals DNA processes

New Scientist ^ | November 15, 2005 | Gaia [sic] Vince

[Fester Chugabrew]

By what authority do you give this answer?

[Kelly_2000]

"Now why does the RNA do this? Nobody (in their right mind) would suggest that it has a will and is acting intentionally"

Actually the molecular transactions have been hypothesized, this IS the empirical data that was required to validate said hypothesis. I am digging the paper out form our faculty archive.

[bkepley]

Anybody who reads this article and feels no astonishment is either stupid or not paying attention.

Call me stupid if you want (I think ignorant is the right word, stupid) but what am I supposed to be astonished about, the experiement or the results?

[Kelly_2000]

"You sound like a 19-year-old who's just started college and is new to the wonders of both science and philosophy. Your conclusion is a perfect example of a non-sequitur and reveals gigantic gaps in your knowledge of both science and philosophy."

I am tempted to agree with you on this one (BTW anyone attacks me I am a catholic)

[snarks_when_bored]

My badly stated point was that looking for a reason why RNAP has the chemical structure it has is wasted effort.

As to your other point, the copying process is always prone to error (there's a whole lotta shaking going on down there). Most of the errors don't improve the fitness of the resulting organism, but some do. Hence the show goes on.

[P-Marlowe]

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[snarks_when_bored]

I wasn't writing a treatise, nor is my concluding sentence intended to be a deduction from the remarks of the preceding paragraph. If you'd care to specify what it is that I've said that is mistaken, I'll be glad to hear it.

[Kelly_2000]

"My badly stated point was that looking for a reason why RNAP has the chemical structure it has is wasted effort. "

I cannot agree with that at all, otherwise the entire field of molecular-biology would be redundant. Please do not assume that much of what you consider "unknown" is indeed the case

[WildHorseCrash]

It's been my experience that the only thing proved by the "godfull" describing the supposed lack of honor, ethics and morals in the "godless" is the intellectual and emotional depravity of those very same "godfull" people. Those that make such claim about the "godless" are only proving that they, themselves, are without honor, ethics and morals.

[WildHorseCrash]

How does anyone look at the wonder of DNA and think "accident" and "random chance"?

How does anyone look at the wonder of DNA and think "invisible sky-god"?

[manwiththehands]

"Anybody who reads this article and feels no astonishment is either stupid or not paying attention."

And anybody who reads your post and is not offended is either stupid or not paying attention. Maybe I haven't had my coffee yet. Arrogant twerp.

[snarks_when_bored]

Molecular chemists and biologists try to determine the structures and functions of the molecules and molecular assemblages that they study. If you maintain that they're also trying to give reasons (in the sense of final causes) for their results, you'll have to give me some references.

[Kelly_2000]

"I wasn't writing a treatise, nor is my concluding sentence intended to be a deduction from the remarks of the preceding paragraph. If you'd care to specify what it is that I've said that is mistaken, I'll be glad to hear it."

a few years ago by a breakthrough by a Doctor called dorothy erie,where she described her collaborative paper identifying new an as yet undiscovered additional binding site for the RNAP enzyme, which we call an allosteric site. As I said I would dig out this reference and I have. This white paper described in full a methodology that proved her hypothesis concerning genetic expression and the precise specification of molecular transactions etc.

The experiment you refer to here has created a corroborative methodology and an observable confirmation of her results, that is all.

[Kelly_2000]

"Molecular chemists and biologists try to determine the structures and functions of the molecules and molecular assemblages that they study. If you maintain that they're also trying to give reasons (in the sense of final causes) for their results, you'll have to give me some references."

Whaaaat? How on earth could any etiological analysis that is attempting to determine a causative agent for a disease NOT proceed on this assumption?

[snarks_when_bored]

You're quite right to rebuke me for my beginning sentence. It was poorly stated and insensitive, and I apologize to you and to all readers of this thread for having written it.

[Rudder]

...looking for a reason why RNAP

Ah, here's the rub. Science asks "how," not "why."

[Liberal Classic]

Perhaps a scientist will be able to show how something OTHER than a copy manages to get into the strand.

Since this is the very essence of Evolution, THAT is what is needed now to blast the IDer's out of the water.

By this standard, ID has already been blown out of the water. The error rates of DNA replication and polymerase transcription are well known, as are the types of errors and how they occur. Errors occur in the transcription of one out of every 10^4 to 10^5 base pair. DNA replication has an error rate that is approximately the same, but the DNA strand is checked twice for errors which increases accuracy. Note that I am talking about errors in the chemical assembly of proteins and the duplication of DNA. This does not include damage from environmental sources such as chemical carcinogens or radiation exposure, only errors in the transcription and duplication process.

[Kelly_2000]

"You're quite right to rebuke me for my beginning sentence. It was poorly stated and insensitive, and I apologize to you and to all readers of this thread for having written it."

thanks for the post

[Rock N Jones]

"This is far from true, as some thought and some attention to history would show. And (by way of anecdote) don't forget that the BTK monster was a well-respected Lutheran congregant..."

Yes and the A bomb is well respected too, or it better be!