Weapons of the World: Little Bullets (5.56) Lose Respect

Weapons of the World ^ | November 15, 2005

[holymoly]

November 15, 2005: The U.S. Army’s cancellation of the XM8 (a replacement for the M16) reflects disenchantment with the 5.56mm round, more than anything else. While the 5.56mm bullet was OK when used in an automatic weapon, it is much less useful when you have so many troops who know how to shoot, and can hit targets just as easily with single shots. In addition to better shooting skills, the troops also have much better sights, both for day and night use. It’s much more effective to fire less often, if you have troops who can do that and hit what they are shooting at with the first shot. Most American troops can.

Moreover, the 5.56mm round is less effective in urban fighting, where you often want to shoot through doors and walls. The 5.56mm round is not as effective at doing this as is the heavier 7.62mm bullet. And the troops have plenty of 7.62mm weapons available, in order to compare. There is the M240 medium machine-gun. While this 7.62mm weapon is usually mounted on vehicles, it is often taken off and used by infantry for street fighting. Lots of 1960s era 7.62mm M14 rifles have also been taken out of storage and distributed. While used mainly as sniper rifles, the snipers do other work on the battlefield as well, and the troops have been able to see that the heavier 7.62mm round does a better job of shooting through cinder block walls, and taking down bad guys with one shot. Too often, enemy troops require several 5.56mm bullets to put them out of action.

In a situation like that, it makes more sense to carry a heavier round. The question is, which one? The army has been experimenting with a 6.8mm round, but now some are demanding that the full size 7.62mm round be brought back. There are M16 type weapons that use the full size 7.62mm round (and the lower powered AK-47 7.62mm round). The new SOCOM SCAR rifle can quickly be adapted to using all of the above by swapping out the barrel and receiver. Could be that the army is going to wait and see what SOCOM decides to do.

The other big complaint about the M16 is it’s sensitivity to fine dust, as found in Iraq and, to a lesser extent, Afghanistan. This stuff causes the rifle (and the light machine-gun version, the M243), to jam. Troops have to be cleaning these weapons constantly. Another problem with the M243 is that most of the ones in service are very old, and in need of a replacement (with new M243s, or a new weapon design.) The XM8 solved much of the “dust sensitivity” problem, but part of the problem was the smaller round.

A decision on the army’s new assault rifle will probably come sooner, rather than later, because the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are making a lot of Internet noise over the issue.

[jordan8]

One way to solve these problems is to have a gun that can fire full powered cartridges for long range or penetration and multiple projection cartridges, with say 3 bullets, for short range. These multiple bullet rounds would only have to be accurate and able to penetrate soft body armor out to 1-200 meters, ideally with at least one projectile hitting to point of aim and the others hitting within a 1-2 foot radius. While current cartridges could be used a new one with a long neck would probably be best. Whether it should be semi-auto only or have burst or full auto capability will have to be worked out. This doesn't completely solve the carrying problem since while each multiple projection cartridge equals three regular cartridges fired on burst, the advantage dissappears when slow aimed fire is desired.

The Austrian firm of Hirtenberg made tungsten cored 5.56 bullets in the '70s with excellent penetration.

[SauronOfMordor]

They're not my favorite, but I'll have to say that these have been reliable so far and we have not been "nice" to them. Also, EVERYBODY can use them, from the 10 yr old, up to and including the wife!

That is the AR-15's saving grace with me. My 12-yo daughter had no problem with it when I had her use it at CMP matches

[hiredhand]

She's shooting CMP matches! Good for her! My 12 yr old girl is a very "private" shooter. She doesn't like to be around anybody else usually when we're shooting. She competes with me though, and she's quite good! She says she wants to start shooting the AR, and maybe our .243 Win.

She baffles me though. She used to shoot my FAL (.308 Win) when I had a bipod on it, but she was afraid of the AR-15 for the longest time! She said it was because of the spring noise in the stock (of the AR).

As a purist, I can badmouth the AR for a LONG time. But there's something to be said for a weapon that holds a reasonable amount of ammo (we've got a BUNCH fo 30 rd mags), is fairly accurate at 300 to 400 yards, and that EVERYBODY can use! I agree. It's useability is a DEFINITE advantage. :-)

[JSteff]

"Let's put composite stocks on the M14 and issue that as the primary rifle until we get something better."

Sadly to say... IIRC I think we destroyed most of our stocks of M14's years ago. There are a few around but not in any sort of quantity.

[Poser]

.45ACP is God's Caliber. That said, the .30 caliber round is much more effective than the .223.

There is no one round or gun that is best for all uses.

The 1903 bolt action Springfield is still one of the best medium/long range weapons ever produced. The AK47 is the king of spray and pray.

If the Army wants a larger caliber select-fire combat rifle, more power to them (pun intended). This means I'll be able to buy the civilian version and cheap ammo soon after adoption.

More toys!

[wingnutx]

I never understood why in the world they changed the M16 to a three round burst and got rid of the full auto feature.

Seabees still use full-auto M-16s. That's just cause they don't give us the SAW :|

M-4s are full-auto.

[wingnutx]

I saw Mk 19s in use in Iraq.

My Major almost got killed by one when an army convoy let loose a negligent discharge of 3-4 rounds into our FOB. We thought it was mortars until the guilty party came back and fessed up.

Seabees used them on their convoy escort humvees. Carried M203s and AT-4s, too.

[B4Ranch]

The stock of the M16 rifle was made by Mattel, nothing else. Colt Firearms Corporation machined the action and barrel.

[B4Ranch]

When did the Seabees get M-16's? 1990? We never got any new tools until the old ones were unrepairable!

[Natural Law]

Actually it was the hand grip that had the Mattel marking.

[Spktyr]

Clinton had most of the M14s destroyed. Seems the Marines and SOCOM "lost" a *lot* of the ones they had, though, which is where they're getting their issue weapons now.

[Spktyr]

The multiple projection cartridges have been tried. Google for "duplex cartridges". They were a good idea on paper, but a failure in practice.

[Sender]

Aside from the debate on the caliber, the beauty of the Kalashnikov action is that it's so over-engineered that it has the mass, the momentum and the dead space around the critical parts that it will feed anything from hardball ammo to bananas to pieces of wood, and it doesn't matter if there is a handful of sand in there. It just doesn't matter.

I own 3 AKs and none of them has ever, ever suffered a single failure to feed or fire with any kind of ammo. And they're not that bad in the accuracy department either.

I have owned 3 different AR-15 variants, have taken meticulous care of them and yet have had occasional failures to feed and fire from each of them. With all kinds of magazines. They are remarkably accurate though.

If I were competing in a high power rifle competition, I'd choose the AR-15 hands down. But if I were in the desert fighting for my life, I'd choose the Kalashnikov hands down. Even if you don't have time to clean it, it performs.

[wingnutx]

We have M16s with the A2 uppers and the old full-auto lowers, designated an M-16-A2-E3. Since we don't get the SAW, our AR guys just flip the selector to full-auto.

Seabees didn't even get camo until after desert storm. Maybe we'll get the SAW after everyone else gets rid of it.

[archy]

"I prefer the M14."

As do I. Love that rifle

I'm not real thrilled with the front sights loosening and coming off, nor of the bolt rollers cracking and falling off during rainy periods or from too-frequent full-auto fire.

As a specialist's tool, particularly for a squad's Designated Rifleman or for snipers who like a semi-auto, it's superb.

For the women who make up 10% of the Army's personnel nowadays and for many of the *minority hires* it's a bit too much. Think of truck driver/POW Pfc. Jessica Lynch with a clunky M14 in her truck cab instead on the M16A2 she was unable to effectively use.

[archy]

The vertical-to-horizontal feeding system idea in the G11 (which I thought was the most unique idea of the whole system) managed to survive the cancellation and appears in the current FN P90.

Developed for the Hill submachinegun of circa 1959. Originally in .38 Special, as I recall....

[M Kehoe]

M Kehoe: Hey guy we're taking a beating on this thread.
5.56mm: Yeah, I know. $hit, you and I did pretty good way back when...don't ya think?
M Kehoe: Sure, but that was another time, things change.
5.56mm: Hey, your not thinking of losing me as your tag line, are you?
M Kehoe: No man, we've been together over 30 years. I won't even consider it.
5.56mm: WHEW!

5.56mm

[archy]

The effect I was talking about was for pre-mass-production rifles with the 1-in-14 twist barrels, from the field evaluation period.

The original Armalite AR-15 rifles obtained for Special Forces by the Army Limited Warfare Lab [from USAF procurements, as I recall] had the 1:14 twist barrels, often helpfully augmented by the use of Remington commercial ammo, usually in the 55-grain hollowpoint loading.

The *improved* Army Ordnance Corps XM16 version used a 1:12 twist barrel, for lessened erosion with ball powder, better performance with tracer ammunition, and to meet accuracy requirements under Arctic conditions not frequently encountered in Vietnam. The resulting weapon was fairly quickly replaced by the next-generation M16A1 with a chrome-lined 1:12 barrel and a bolt assist for dealing with cases that hadn't quite chambered, either from corrosion or moisture on the brass or from chamber fouling. The features remain on today's M16A2 and M4 variants.

Most of the remaining M16 rifles we had in First Infantry Div. Circa 1968 were traded for new/er M16A1s, thence to be handed off to the Viets, Koreans or Australians. A few old much-rebuilt Vietnam-era M16s still remain in Australian ARES armouries, their new AusSteyers not being in complete issue quite yet.

[attiladhun2]

Too heavy, rate of fire too low, but a good weapon in its day. Much better than the Mauser or Arisaka. Also better than the Italians' rifle (most of which were dropped).

[archy]

As for the 6.8mm round. I've only read a little about the development, and experiments. From what I've read, they're trying to get the "best of the best", and a 6.8mm projectile seems to be IT. From what I know about 6mm rounds so far, I suspect they may be onto something.

You should read of the British experiments and developments regarding the desirability of developing a .276 service weapon, generally called a *.280,* for their service use in the fading days of the British Empire. That empire faded, and the need was gone, but many of their conclusions remain valid. And Syd Hance's resulting rifle design was- interesting...

from left to right: British experimental .280 (7x43mm) cartridge for EM-2; Soviet 7.62x39mm M43; US/NATO 5.56x45mm (.223 Rem); US/NATO 7.62x51mm (.308 Win)