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Trying to fix 'a moral wrong' (through reparations)
North Jersey Newspapers ^ | 11.13.05 | MIGUEL PEREZ

Posted on 11/13/2005 9:20:52 PM PST by Coleus

LEONIA - Calling slavery "a moral wrong that must be righted ... to cleanse the soul of America," a group of North Jersey residents set out Saturday to look for ways to make reparations to African-Americans.

At the All Saints' Episcopal Church, more than 30 people sought ways to compensate black Americans for the unpaid labor, pain and humiliation endured by their ancestors - and for the economic, social and psychological problems caused by slavery that still affect blacks today.

"This is about repairing the enduring harm that slavery caused to people of African ancestry in so many ways, including financially," said Donna Lamb, communications director for Caucasians United for Reparations and Emancipation. "It's a simple fact that for 250 years whites robbed millions of enslaved Africans of the wealth their labor created. They were forced to work for free, while white individuals, companies and the U.S. government made huge profits off their labor."

On its Web site, CURE expresses "remorse for all the crimes committed in the name of white supremacy" and notes that "true emancipation of the enslaved Africans will not be achieved until their descendants enjoy the freedoms that reparations will provide."

The community forum was the first of many planned by the Newark Episcopal Diocese's Reparations Task Force, created in July 2004 as part of the church's "mission to dismantle racism."

The discussion was led by Lamb and Barbara Wheeler, chairwoman of African Studies at Kean University, who recounted the history of efforts to seek reparations for black Americans.

"This is not a new struggle," Wheeler said. "This has been a struggle since black people have been here."

At the forum, some whites expressed their shame over slavery and some blacks spoke of their anger over the "white privilege" they said is still prevalent in this country.

"My emotional reaction had a lot of shame in it, a lot of sadness," said Annie Byerly, a white woman from Leonia, after watching a movie on the need for slave reparations. "And my intellectual reaction was, 'I've got to fix this.'Ÿ"

The movie caused a different reaction among African-Americans. "I'm speaking softly," said Lorna Cunningham of Teaneck. "But I'm very angry."

Lamb warned the forum participants to "be leery of what you hear or read in the mainstream media about this subject because the powers that be want white people to fear and hate the idea of reparations."

One by one, Lamb sought to answer the lingering questions posed by white Americans who say their ancestors didn't own slaves, or who immigrated to this country after slavery.

"Reparations is not about money being taken out of every white person's personal bank account and handed over to blacks, as the spreaders of misinformation can make it seem," Lamb said. "Individuals do not pay reparations. Reparations are what a government pays a people it has wronged ... with tax dollars."

She said white Americans didn't have to own a slave to benefit from slavery "because the whole infrastructure of this nation was built on money made from it."

As for those who came after slavery was abolished, Lamb said it doesn't matter. She said they also benefited from a society created by slavery.

"The whole reason people come to this country in the first place is to get in on the wealth that had its origin in slavery," Lamb said. "They don't know it, but these 'streets paved in gold' they came here to find could more aptly be called 'streets bathed in the blood, sweat and tears of enslaved Africans."

Lamb said she is often told she is being divisive for making an issue over something that happened so long ago.

"My response is that the ravages of slavery, both economic and spiritual, are very much alive and immediate today," she said. "You can't brutalize a people massively and then just tell them to get over it."

Agreeing with Lamb, several participants said it should not be up to white people to determine how blacks should spend reparation money. They noted that African-Americans who seek reparations have many good ideas, including funding for education, job training, housing, small businesses, and child and mental health care - to bring blacks up to par with white Americans.

Participants were asked if their churches should be involved in the reparations debate.

"If we are all equal and made in God's image," said Ruth Dougherty of Leonia, "it's a no-brainer."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: ecusa; racehustlers; reparations; shakedown
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To: nicmarlo
Part of the argument is that even if your ancestors didn't own slaves, you benefited from the cultural structure that slavery and institutionalized bigotry created. That you or your ancestors didn't want the benefit is immaterial. Whites derived a benefit at the expense of blacks, so in the interest of equity it should be addressed.

I think the best argument against slave reparations is that any accounting of damage suffered in calculating economic harm suffered by blacks must necessarily be offset by any benefits derived by blacks.

That is, but for slavery many blacks in the USA would have been born in Africa and living there now. Compare things like standard of living, standards in health and healthcare, life expectancy, income, disposable income, etc between what benefit they enjoy in the USA vs what benefit they would enjoy if they were born and raised in Africa.

By that standard, I think a case could be made that when all the damage suffered is compared against all the benefits (relative to a lifelong existence in Africa) derived, black people may very well owe the USA money.

A calculation that only calculates damage without offsetting it by benefits is fundamentally unfair.
21 posted on 11/13/2005 9:42:03 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: Coleus
"Reparations is not about money being taken out of every white person's personal bank account and handed over to blacks, as the spreaders of misinformation can make it seem," Lamb said. "Individuals do not pay reparations. Reparations are what a government pays a people it has wronged ... with tax dollars."

I'm amazed she has the brain power to remember to breathe.

22 posted on 11/13/2005 9:42:03 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Coleus

Want to save these people some time and money? Give them this link:

http://www.radical-conservative.org/certificate.html


23 posted on 11/13/2005 9:46:27 PM PST by Rastus
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To: Coleus
Reparations - semperations.
Pay only if some one can prove they were harmed by slavery and only paid by those who benefited and only after the seven trillion dollars already paid to equalize the situation is subtracted.
24 posted on 11/13/2005 9:51:10 PM PST by roylene
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To: Coleus

when i read this item in the record this morning i nearly spit up my coffee when the dumbass said it's not coming out of your own bank account but from tax dollars.
My contention is this, my family on both my mother's and father's side, only came to this country during the mid-20th century. They didn't own black slaves in either country of origin (ireland & germany) so why the hell should I have to pay reparations through my tax dollars???


25 posted on 11/13/2005 9:51:14 PM PST by Nipplemancer (Abolish the DEA !)
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To: HitmanNY
A calculation that only calculates damage without offsetting it by benefits is fundamentally unfair.

All things being equal, of course. I agree with your post.

26 posted on 11/13/2005 9:51:51 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Coleus
"They noted that African-Americans who seek reparations have many good ideas, including funding for education, job training, housing, small businesses, and child and mental health care - to bring blacks up to par with white Americans"

The above has been going on for more than thirty years and is nothing new.

There have been lasting negative effects and complications from slavery, but being the ancestor of a slave is not the same as being one yourself.

Neither myself or anyone in my family, had anything to do with slavery, so I harbor NO guilt over it and am sick and tired of people attempting to make me feel guilty about it. Furthermore, I deeply resent the constant effort among Liberals lecturing to us about slavery and it's damaging effects, as if we never thought of it ourselves, don't understand it and lack compassion about it.

Thanks to the Good Catholic Sisters who taught us and the wonderful people who raised us, we are well acquainted with the evil history of slavery and discrimination against Black Americans and find it abhorrent. Thus, regarding this issue we don't need it rubbed and hammered into our already sensitive consciences.

27 posted on 11/13/2005 9:52:10 PM PST by TAdams8591 (Students deserve a choice!)
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To: montomike

The prop plane I was on, in the early seventies, had to land at Monrovia, Liberia for repairs.
As we had no visas, we were stuck in the airport.
I was talking to an old man, who told me his ancestors were among the group that returned to Africa. He said it was the worst mistake they ever made.


28 posted on 11/13/2005 9:52:48 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (expert, break it down, ex = has been, spurt = drip under pressure.)
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To: Rastus

That's great; and so is Ken Hamblin.


29 posted on 11/13/2005 9:52:59 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Coleus

They can start by collecting reparations from whoever sold them into slavery back in Africa two ... three ... four hundred years ago. Whether it's the tribe in the next jungle over or Arab Muslims.


30 posted on 11/13/2005 9:55:29 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Nipplemancer
"My contention is this, my family on both my mother's and father's side, only came to this country during the mid-20th century. They didn't own black slaves in either country of origin (ireland & germany) so why the hell should I have to pay reparations through my tax dollars???"

And to people who were never themselves, slaves.

31 posted on 11/13/2005 9:57:58 PM PST by TAdams8591 (Students deserve a choice!)
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To: nicmarlo

Yep.


32 posted on 11/13/2005 9:58:31 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: nicmarlo

Yep.


33 posted on 11/13/2005 9:58:42 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: Coleus

I have a better idea and one that is much more equitable. The blacks should repay the slave owners for the loss of their property through illegal government action. The North should also pay the South to rebuild their cities and farms which were destroyed in the war. If we can rebuild Europe, Japan, and Iraq, surely we can rebuild the South.


34 posted on 11/13/2005 9:58:56 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: nicmarlo

It would make sense for Taxpayers to offer to pay for a one way ticket to Liberia (Africa) for these shakedown artists.


35 posted on 11/13/2005 9:59:09 PM PST by Mount Athos
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To: cpdiii; Paleo Conservative
The Price in Blood!
Casualties in the Civil War

At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. The number that is most often quoted is 620,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars, from the Revolution through Vietnam.

The Union armies had from 2,500,000 to 2,750,000 men.
Their losses, by the best estimates:

Battle deaths: 110,070
Disease, etc.: 250,152
Total 360,222

* * *

The leading authority on casualties of the war, Thomas L. Livermore, admitting the handicap of poor records in some cases, studied 48 of the war's battles and concluded:

Of every 1,000 Federals in battle, 112 were wounded.
Of every 1,000 Confederates, 150 were hit.
Mortality was greater among Confederate wounded, because of inferior medical service.


36 posted on 11/13/2005 9:59:49 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Mount Athos

They wouldn't be happy with that, either.


37 posted on 11/13/2005 10:02:19 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Coleus
The war on poverty (great society) has spent more than 40 Billion since it's inception. Blacks have received a disproportionate amount of these funds on a per capita basis. Can we consider that to be a part of a total reparations package??
38 posted on 11/13/2005 10:03:58 PM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Coleus

No one in my family owned slaves. But I should pay money potentially to some people whose family were never enslaved?



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


39 posted on 11/13/2005 10:06:00 PM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: Coleus

Nevermind for a moment that I never owned slaves and no one who receives this money has ever been enslaved.


40 posted on 11/13/2005 10:06:44 PM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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