[Kansas Gov. Kathleen] Sebelius criticizes State Board of Education's move [new science standards]

Kansas City Star via Kansas.com ^ | 12 November 2005 | DAVID KLEPPER

[PatrickHenry]

Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius on Friday called the state's new science standards a "step in the wrong direction."

Her comments follow a week in which the Kansas Board of Education adopted new science standards Tuesday that portray evolution as being in doubt and change the definition of science to allow for supernatural explanations.

In her lengthiest public comments yet on the controversy, Sebelius said she worries the changes will undermine science education and send the message that Kansas doesn't welcome high-tech firms and research. She pointed to the state's efforts to recruit bioscience companies, while the board votes to move "away from well-known, proven facts in science class."

Her comments also came as more candidates have stepped forward to challenge Board of Education members who approved the standards earlier this week.

Though the standards make no mention of creationism or intelligent design, they were sought by members of the intelligent design movement, which believes scientific evidence shows that nature was designed by a creator.

Four of the six conservative board members who voted to approve the changes are up for election next November. Moderate Republicans and Democrats are aiming to unseat conservatives, take control of the board and remove the new science standards before they go into effect in 2007.

In a closely watched race in Pennsylvania, voters in the town of Dover on Tuesday did what opponents of the intelligent design standards hope will happen here.

Voters there ousted most of that city's school board, which had voted to put intelligent design in the curriculum.

The latest two people to announce campaigns for state school board are Don Weiss, an Olathe resident, and Kent Runyan, a Pittsburg State University education professor.

Weiss will run as a Democrat against board member John Bacon, an Olathe Republican. Runyan will run as a Democrat against Republican board member Iris Van Meter. Bacon and Van Meter supported the standards.

Olathe resident Harry McDonald has already announced his plans to challenge Bacon in the primary election. Other candidates have popped up in other districts as well.

Bacon, who hasn't announced his re-election plans, said he's not concerned about his challengers and doesn't believe any political lessons from Dover, Pa., are relevant to Kansas. He said the Kansas school standards do not mandate the teaching of intelligent design like the ones in Dover. And he said he believes most Kansans will support the board's decision.

"There are holes in evolution," he said. "Any good scientist will admit to that."

Sebelius said she was "baffled" by the Board of Education's yearlong debate about evolution, and that as a Catholic who attended religious schools, she sees no contradiction between faith and scientific explanations of nature.

"I was taught that God created the universe," she said. "I was also taught science in science class."

Bacon said Sebelius doesn't understand that the board changed the standards to allow students to make up their own minds about evolution. He said worries about the changes' effects on the economy, public education and the state's reputation amount to "scare tactics."

[shuckmaster]

I wonder how many of these trolls are on Soros' payroll

Probably way more than you'd guess. Conservative is not synonymous with ignorant even though these few trolls here are trying hard to paint that picture.

IMO, Dane calling conservatives "neo-Hillary"s is a Freudian slip.

It's more like a deranged obsession he has with hillary!

[Dane]

But we agree about religion and evolution. We agree that the people of Kansas look mighty foolish right now, having elected such idiots to their school board and not having the ability to keep such idiots from opening their mouths and demonstrating their ignorance while the world watches

Fine stay, in california, no one is stopping you.

Don't make me the instant "nazi" for commenting on an issue you, narby, brought up.

Again JMO(no doubt my opinion is that of a nazi to you and your atheist boss), you guys are fools for basing your business decicisons on dogmatic liberal rhetoric.

[Dimensio]

And clinton's so-called "accomplishments" have no bearing on he ignored the islamofascist threat, correct, according to your "theory" stated above in intalics.

Non-sequitur. Clinton's bad policies have nothing whatsoever to do with the theory of evolution. How shamelessly dishonest of you; when it's demonstrated that you are fundamentally ignorant of what the theory of evolution is you dishonestly shift the discussion to something completely off-topic.

And people wonder why I dismiss most creationists as shameless liars.

[Dane]

Clinton's bad policies have nothing whatsoever to do with the theory of evolution. How shamelessly dishonest of you; when it's demonstrated that you are fundamentally ignorant of what the theory of evolution is you dishonestly shift the discussion to something completely off-topic

Uh I ain't the one on this thread saying "darwin doesn't matter about the origins of life", ala, the liberal democrats mantra of "sex doesn't matter when it is done in the Oval Office".

[narby]

you and your atheist boss

Well, there's some proof that you don't read the posts you reply to. I just said he wasn't my boss, merely irreplaceable (most technical bosses being the easiest to replace).

I'm now way past my troll post limit.

[Dimensio]

Uh I ain't the one on this thread saying "darwin doesn't matter about the origins of life", ala, the liberal democrats mantra of "sex doesn't matter when it is done in the Oval Office".

Another non-seqitur, this time with a dishonest analogy to a Clinton lie that no one here has endorsed. You've demonstrated that you don't care about honesty or rationality. You've decided that you want to trash the theory of evolution and now that it's clear that no one is going to accept your ridiculous claims about what evolution supposedly implies you've changed the subject to calling anyone who accepts the theory of evolution Clinton-lovers. You can't win on merit so you just try to trash the competition. You're a shameless liar and nothing that you can say can be trusted.

Evolution does not address the ultimate origin of life. You keep insisting otherwise, but you have utterly failed to make anything remotely resembling a case for your claim. Instead, you attack anyone who points out that your assertions regarding the theory are wrong. I know why this is: creationists never admit their mistakes; they just erect a wall of lies and distractions to hide from them. Kind of like Democrats.

[narby]

And people wonder why I dismiss most creationists as shameless liars.

I really wonder how many "creationists" around here are genuine. I'm beginning to think that maybe even a majority are not. So what's their game?

Are they trying to make Christians look bad? Or Conservatives look bad? Or merely just crackpots with nothing better to do on a saturday morning?

[Dane]

Well, there's some proof that you don't read the posts you reply to. I just said he wasn't my boss, merely irreplaceable (most technical bosses being the easiest to replace).

I'm now way past my troll post limit

Again you were the one who brought up about not moving to Kansas over a liberal domatic issue.

I could really care less if someone "irreplacable" to you is neck deep in such liberal dung.

That's your problem, not mine, don't blame me for your deficient persuasion skills.

[Dimensio]

Are they trying to make Christians look bad? Or Conservatives look bad? Or merely just crackpots with nothing better to do on a saturday morning?

I've often wondered that also. I personally have trouble conceiving of people being as deliberately dishonest as Dane, Havoc, Dataman and others. I mean, even Democrats aren't usually so blatant in their lies as many of the creationists around here.

As for now, Dane can rant and rave all he or she likes. I have to go work on a computer hardware project and don't have time to continue pointing out his or her lies. Besides, Dane's lies are transparent enough that a third-grader could see through them.

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

THE ORIGIN of LIFE!!

Why? Because those studying chemical evolution still can't produce life. It's a sore subject.

Why are the evo's such shameless liars? Why do they keep trying to fool everybody by stating evolution doesn't attempt to address how life began? Who do they think they are fooling?

[Dane]

Another non-seqitur, this time with a dishonest analogy to a Clinton lie that no one here has endorsed. You've demonstrated that you don't care about honesty or rationality. You've decided that you want to trash the theory of evolution and now that it's clear that no one is going to accept your ridiculous claims about what evolution supposedly implies you've changed the subject to calling anyone who accepts the theory of evolution Clinton-lovers

What is so dishonest about the clinton analogy?

On this thread many people have been saying "darwin' theory had nothing to do with the origin of life".

Ala the democrats excuse of "sex in the Oval office has nothing to do with clinton".

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Why are the evo's such shameless liars? Why do they keep trying to fool everybody by stating evolution doesn't attempt to address how life began? Who do they think they are fooling?"

Who do you think YOU are fooling? Evolution has NEVER been about life's origins. Darwin said so explicitly. Only creationists are bold enough to lie so shamelessly.

BTW, even your buddy Dane has admitted that Darwin and evolution in general doesn't try to explain the origins of life. When he wasn't letting his obsession with Hillary carry him away.

[Dimensio]

:Why? Because those studying chemical evolution still can't produce life.

It has been explained time and again exactly why evolution does not address the origin of life: evolution is driven by imperfect replication and environmental selection pressure limiting such replication to entities with specific heritable traits. That mechanism does not apply when researching the origin of imperfect self-replicators because those replicators would not exist in one step. You are nothing but a shameless liar for trying to imply otherwise after having been told better.

[narby]

don't blame me for your deficient persuasion skills.

Is this a clue about Dane's motivation? All he has to do is remain "unpersuaded", and he wins. Dane is better than we are, because we have "deficient persuasion skills".

It's a pretty cheap victory, coming as a result of changing the subject to something irrelevant.

[Dane]

Per your reply #110, so true.

[Tench_Coxe]

"On this thread many people have been saying "darwin' theory had nothing to do with the origin of life"."

Just to put the lie to this statement, here's some fuel to the fire:
Those that think these things just disappear down the 'memory hole' are confused or intellectually dishonest

[Dane]

Is this a clue about Dane's motivation? All he has to do is remain "unpersuaded", and he wins. Dane is better than we are, because we have "deficient persuasion skills"

Hey narbs, don't blame me that an "irreplacable" person on your 'team" has DUmmie values about Kansas.

That's your problem, that you let fester.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" On this thread many people have been saying "darwin' theory had nothing to do with the origin of life"."

You are one of them,

" That begs the question, species are begat of life.

Why did darwin and modern supporters leave that out."

and

" But still it leaves out the penultimate question(of who or what created life), and I beleive that is the creationists point, kinda of like the adage "can't see the forest for the trees".

FWIW, I side on the creationist side, they are least being honest in including the question of who or what created life."

[Michael_Michaelangelo]

Blah blah blah. Didn't you have some computer work to do? I thought your were leaving?

You and some of the other evo's here are some of the most uptight and wound-up people I have ever met. Try a vacation sometime. It's fun. Hint: spending every single day here, from morning to night, calling other FReepers liars, isn't a vacation.

[Dane]

You are one of them

No doubt, I have stated on this thread that I side on the creationist side, especially with the clintonian type of rhetoric coming from the darwin side.