Boycott Anti-Christian Civilization 4

Myself

[Berlin_Freeper]

From the game:

"With the might of Rome behind it, Christianity spread rapidly thoughout the known world."

Notice the word "might" negates any idea that people converted to Christianity from any inner spiritual ideals. The fact is, the Roman Empire tried to crush Christianity with all its might, and only through spiritual faith did Romans become Christians. Also:

"When the Roman Empire fell, Christianity broke into two branches. Since then it has continued to fragment, with a number of branches quite hostile to others."

I would like to know who it is that is "quite hostile to others". The only place I can think of that could be described as such would be small area of the British controlled north Ireland. Considering all the many people of Christian faith living around the world in peace, this chosen view can be nothing but a twisted lie and Anti-Christian.

Now compare that negativity to how the game describes the documented cold blooded killer Muhammad:

"He and his followers were reviled and attacked by those who did not believe, but they were following the path that God had set for them and emerged triumphant, eventually unifying all Arabia under one rule."

Not a word about how Muhammad is documented to have been a highway robber, hostage taker for ransom, attacked towns and cities and murdered people in cold blood.

Furthermore the technology advance "scientific Method" makes religion obsolete, although I have never seen science disprove God or the human Soul.

And there is a technology advancement called "Liberalism" theat grants the first to discover it a free technology and enables "free speech" and "free religion" when the fact is that the people who have brought us free speech were Christians not Liberals and there is no "Conservatism" technology to be discovered.

And finally one other thing I have noticed is that for the "Internet", they actually have Al Gore with the American flag and after seeing their attitudes I already described you know they're not joking.

By the way, the game is simply more of the same boring stuff as before. Luckily they sent us a free copy because my wife reviews games. They claim it's 3-D, but there are only 3 set angles that you can rotate the view to, which makes Sid Meier not only Anti-Christian, but a liar, a cheat and a fraud.

[The_Reader_David]

Yes, but my differences are the honest theological and ecclesiological differences all us Orthodox have with the Latin church.

I have no truck with folks who make up Church history. (I've remarked elsewhere, after the manner of Santayana, "Those who cannot remember Church history are condemned to make it up.")

[mnehring]

I'm quite concerned with this black out of the Church's history, specifically with the oppression of literature. The dark age oppression of literature started around 494 when Pope Gelasius banned all banned heretical books and apocryphal gospels, ordering the destruction of any work of the pen not ordained. It is interesting that the Dark Ages were considered to start only a few years later (c500). Even 50 years before this, the seeds were planted by Pope Leo the Great: Here the tenets of philosophy must be crushed, here the follies of earthly wisdom must be dispelled, here the cult of demons must be refuted, here the blasphemy of all idolatries must be rooted out. Leo made it the church's goal to use its power to extirpate all philosophy, all learning, all secular science, and all competing religions... from the face of the earth. Around 590, Pope Gregory 1st denounced all secular education as folly and wickedness, and forbade Christian laymen to read even the Bible. He burned the library of the Palatine Apollo, lest its secular literature distract the faithful from the contemplation of heaven. Gregory 1st and his contemporaries even banned the reading of ordained literature by any vulgar language- only allowing the readings in church to be in Latin- something the average citizen couldn't understand, even if they were allowed to be educated to read and write. Yes, there were enclaves of literacy and free thought (notably the the Carolingian Renaissance, Bede's Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum, & Acluin's Trivitum during the Dark Ages), but most of what you cite is actually post-dark ages, branching into the middle ages when there was a blooming of literacy and an acceptance of education outside of the church's control (spurred by the seeds of the aforementioned Carolingian Renaissance).

[trashcanbred]

It was a much later Emperor Theodosius, who eventually made Christianity the Imperial state religion and actually outlawed paganism.

Now you went and spoiled my weekend :-) but thanks for clarifying that. I should have said he "legalized" Christianity.

[Berlin_Freeper]

I forgot to mention that the "mass media" according to Sid Meier is "Hollywood" and "The United Nation".

And once again children, if "it is only just a game", why was it so necessary to put a negative view of Christianity and a positive on Islam, which would most definitely warrant a more critical description than the one offered by the libtards who made this crappy game?

I am now loading Age of Empires to play and have deleted Civ4 (btw Civ4 doesn't even have a remove option you have to go to windows program to delete it).

[RogueIsland]

Um... during the dark ages it was Christian Europe in the dark. muslim Northern Africa and muslim Spain were actually very enlightened and much more advanced.

Yup. Islam wasn't always the benighted culture it is today. It was pretty violent, but it hardly had a monopoly on that.

[Vicomte13]

Are your italicized words direct quotes?
Could you cite the source for me, please?

[The_Reader_David]

Cite sources. In context. Primary sources, preferably in the original Latin (or more likely Greek) with a parallel translation: the words of commentators hawking the protestant and freethinking mythology about the Church are not at all to the point.

Crushing philosophy, earthly wisdom, the cult of demons and idolatry sounds like a good idea to me, and have nothing to do with suppressing literacy. (Speaking as an Orthodox, the failure to successfully crush theology was what ultimately separated our Western brethren from us.)

Likewise the destruction of heretical works and apocryphal (usually gnostic) 'gospels' is hardly an antiliteracy measure.

[dervish]

You are correct.

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/banned.htm

http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/hwc22/Medieval/Bible/Bible_in_English.html

[The_Reader_David]

Interesting. The quotations you offer are post-schism. My defense was really limited to the defense of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Rome--pre-schism (or perhaps before 800 A.D. (the cutoff for unexamined inclusion of Western saints in Orthodox calendars)), though I would have been inclined to disbelieve the protestant accusations against even the later heretical Latin papacy.

[1rudeboy]

Don’t go dissing Sid Meier. I still play Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire. That game has some unfortunate “assumptions” also (primarily about the character, Morgan), but the day I stop playing that one is the day I can no longer partition a hard drive to run Win95.

[alienjesus]

Lol ok, this is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. I’m sure it would be a waste of time to post a long, thoughtful reply rebutting each of your arguments, so I’ll just address a few quick points:

Scientific Method obsoletes monasteries, not religion. Religion continues to be an important factor in the game.

Science does not need to disprove God or the human soul. The burden of proof is on the party making the claims. Science does not consider God or the soul because no one has ever been able to offer objective evidence for either.

You are confusing the dictionary definition of liberalism with the current ideals of the democratic party. You know better than that.

The picture of Al Gore is used for the internet technology. Its a joke. They are making fun of him for claiming to have invented the internet. The fact that he is standing in front of the flag is incidental.

In conclusion, its obvious to me that you twisted the facts to suit your own agenda. How Christian of you. Jesus must be rolling in his grave...

Boycott the game. You are only hurting yourself.

[Night Hides Not]

I'm reading this thread, and I'm thinking "WTF?", this thread is three years old. I was surprised to see I posted on the original thread.

Think I'll go spend a few hours on my son's X-Box and play Civ Revolution. Pretty good game. I've been a Civ Fanatic for 15 years or so, I love exploring and building civs from the ground up.

[Verginius Rufus]

Perhaps one-third of the population of Germany died during the Thirty Years’ War, but hardly one-third of all of Europe. Many countries were not directly affected and most if not all of the fighting was within the Holy Roman Empire. Of course the English had their own civil war during the same years, and there was some fighting in Ireland, but they aren’t seen as part of the Thirty Years’ War and I doubt the death toll was anywhere close to one-third in either country.

[The_Reader_David]

I am mystified. Your post seems to have nothing to do with anything I wrote in this thread.

[alienjesus_resurrected]

“I am mystified. Your post seems to have nothing to do with anything I wrote in this thread.”

Mystified? Really?

Well allow me to enlighten you. I’ll quote you directly this time, so you won’t be confused.

You said: “Furthermore the technology advance ‘scientific Method’ makes religion obsolete, although I have never seen science disprove God or the human Soul. “

I said: “Scientific Method obsoletes monasteries, not religion. Religion continues to be an important factor in the game.
Science does not need to disprove God or the human soul. The burden of proof is on the party making the claims. Science does not consider God or the soul because no one has ever been able to offer objective evidence for either.”

You said: “And there is a technology advancement called “Liberalism” theat grants the first to discover it a free technology and enables “free speech” and “free religion” when the fact is that the people who have brought us free speech were Christians not Liberals and there is no “Conservatism” technology to be discovered. “

I said: “You are confusing the dictionary definition of liberalism with the current ideals of the democratic party. You know better than that.”

You said: “And finally one other thing I have noticed is that for the “Internet”, they actually have Al Gore with the American flag and after seeing their attitudes I already described you know they’re not joking. “

I said: “The picture of Al Gore is used for the internet technology. Its a joke. They are making fun of him for claiming to have invented the internet. The fact that he is standing in front of the flag is incidental.”

Seeing the connection?

Oh, and I appreciate the dismissive comment followed by a ban so I can’t even defend myself. Again, very christian of you.

[The_Reader_David]

to alienjesus_resurrected: I said no such thing. Berlin_Freeper, who started the thread, made the bizarre assertion “Furthermore the technology advance ‘scientific Method’ makes religion obsolete, although I have never seen science disprove God or the human Soul,” and all the others you quote.

Go back through the thread and look at who posted what. (The author of posts is listed in the footer of the post.) My only posts besides those answering the comments you misdirected to me were corrections to peoples’ misconceptions about Church history.

to Berlin_Freeper: alienjeus_resurrected has a bone to pick with some of your ideas, but for some reason has been posting his criticisms to me instead of to you. You might want to read his posts to me and reply to him.

to both of you: unless you want to consult me about Church history or to ask for an Orthodox Christian critique of whatever it is you’re posting to each other, leave me out of it.

[mountainbunny]

I would like to know who it is that is "quite hostile to others". The only place I can think of that could be described as such would be small area of the British controlled north Ireland. Considering all the many people of Christian faith living around the world in peace, this chosen view can be nothing but a twisted lie and Anti-Christian.

Seriously? Did you sleep through the part of history class which touched on the Inquisitions? There were four distinct periods of Inquisition, you know (Medieval Inquisition, Spanish Inquisition*, Portuguese Inquisition & the Roman Inquisition)

Were you skipping school the week they covered the Crusades? Not "a" Crusade, but The Crusades. With an 'S' at the end. As in, it wasn't just against the Muslims. There were Crusades against the Eastern Orthodox Church (Christians), the Russian Orthodox Church (Christians), Jews, the Pagans, the Cathars (Christians), the Waldensians (Christians), and the Hussites (Christians). Oh, and the Mongols the Prussians and the Balts. If I left any groups out, my apologies, but I hope you get the point that at various times, the Christian Church has been "quite hostile to others", which is a definite understatement.

Did you happen to be sick the days they covered Iconoclasm? It occurred in the Eastern, Western and Protestant Churches and much of it was bloody. People are funny that way, when you forcefully destroy their churches and tools of worship.

Did you skip over the Dissolution of the Monasteries? Monks were slaughtered wholesale.

Do the Acts of Supremacy ring a bell? Embrace the C 0f E or face treason charges and all that goes with them?

Did you miss the part about why people came to America to start with? Hint: it wasn't because the cable TV was better.

Did you miss out on the Mormon Wars? I know I'm missing more than I've mentioned, but you get the idea.

As a Catholic Christian, I know that there is no benefit and every harm in not recognizing the crimes of the past. Never whitewash it. Never gloss over it. I didn't take part in these acts. The only way I can be culpable is if I deny them or fail to learn from them.

Denying sin is sinful. Denying history is not an option.

As for this video game, I have no idea if it is worth playing or not, but wouldn't base my decision on how historically accurate it is. If it doesn't have Mario, talking animals from Japan (街へ行こうよ どうぶつの森, Machi e ikō yo: Dōbutsu no mor), or a Scrabble board, I probably don't play it.

* which no one expects

[denydenydeny]

The point is, the culture treats Islam with reverence, accepting its premises at face value:

"He and his followers were reviled and attacked by those who did not believe, but they were following the path that God had set for them and emerged triumphant, eventually unifying all Arabia under one rule."

Meanwhile Christianity is examined with all the critical thinking the writer can muster.

I'm frankly sick of "It's just a game/movie/TV show etc." What these all are are snapshots of a culture contemplating suicide. Culture affects us all, whether we want to whistle in the dark about it or not.

[denydenydeny]

Yeah, Christianity should not ever be portrayed historically in a game based on history. Fact is that many Christians have been wrong in the past, starting with Peter who denied Christ 3 times. We will continue to make mistakes, thus being human. All have sinned, and all will continue to sin. Denying our history only paints us in the light of those hiding their own, such as Islam.

Not the point, not the point, not the point.

Being realistic and critical about the failures and offenses of Christianity in its history is, by itself, commendable.

Being realistic and critical about the failures and offenses of Christianity in its history while completely ignoring those of Islam is, in 2010, an act of utter, total cowardice.

[Hoodat]

I’m still playing Civ II. I guess I am behind the times.