An Empty Amendment

Washington Times ^ | 9 November 2005 | Washington Times Editorial

[concretebob]

A bipartisan group of senators has attacked the president's intention to veto any legislation that includes Sen. John McCain's so-called anti-torture amendment. They claim that failure to make clear U.S. interrogation policy tarnishes not only our international standing, but also subverts the very idea of America.

[concretebob]

You have lost sight of the argument with the word "torture"

Here is the problem, in boldface type:

(d) Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment Defined.--
In this section, the term "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment'' means the cruel, unusual, and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, as defined in the United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment done at New York, December 10, 1984.

I do not, repeat, DO NOT want ANY non-US citizen, caught trying to kill 1,000's of people, to be protected by OUR Constitution.
WE CANNOT, WE MUST NOT, reduce acts of terror to simple criminal offenses.

The islamo-fascists have been trying to destroy our Constitutional form of government.

They deserve NO, NYET, ZERO, ZIP, NADA protection

[concretebob]

In regards to your tagline:

"There is no problem which cannot be solved through the proper application of high explosives"

Feel free to appropriate that at your leisure.
and see my last post, please.

[PleaDeal]

I object most to the inclusion of the term "Degrading Treatment or Punishment". I don't see how one would extract intel from a prisoner thru degradation. Wouldn't the subject just get pissed off? Doesn't seem to be a very good inducement to talk, but it would be a very enticing reason to call in the ACLU types to wail about "abuse". I can just see terrorist scumbags complaining about their "feelings being hurt" by wearing handcuffs and leg irons. We'd never be able to even question one of these dirtbags if they saw an interrogator look at them "funny".

Pretty soon there would be no sense in even taking prisoners.

[JCEccles]

Of course these techniques work. We have saved thousands of American lives this way.

Pass this amendment, and throusands of Americans will die to ensure the comfort of some of the most vicious terrorists on the face of the earth.

Is it worth your life to please the liberals and McCain?

[3D-JOY]

Gosh concretebob why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I told a recent solicitor, after they made repeated calls on the phone, I would not give to their charity..."because I don't give a da--". I guess I am getting better at letting my feelings out too!!

[3D-JOY]

war crimes ='s simple criminal offense and court protection

ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!

Keep telling it like it is concretebob!

[GeorgeW23225]

Bravo!! Well said. Kudo's to the author!!!

To hell with political correctness, and to hell with the terrorists and their sympathizers. To hell with them all!!

[GeorgeW23225]

Right on!!!

[GeorgeW23225]

I agree. It is the time to put on the gloves and start to fight, Mr. President!!

I'd prefer "bare knuckles", with the first punches thrown at Ted (the swimmer) Kennedy, Little Dick Durbin, and Dingy Harry Reid. Next up, Hillary, Pelosi, Boxer, Kerry...........
I'm sure you catch my drift!!

[R. Scott]

I do not, repeat, DO NOT want ANY non-US citizen, caught trying to kill 1,000's of people, to be protected by OUR Constitution.

Why not apply local rules and customs? It’s only fair – it would show our sensitivity for local customs, and the “suspects” would be used to the treatment and know what to expect.

[t2buckeye]

"more and more are starting to side with the United States in the War on Terror and are not believing the lies from Al-Qaeda and their ilk throughout the Middle East any longer"

I hope so...the bombing in Jordan should show all Muslims what these people are capable of and who they want to destroy. The protests against Al-Qaeda is heartening. I heard an interesting statement this morning....that the Jordanians are the only ones to truly GET it. They are blaming the terrorists..not GWBush. And the feared "Arab street" isn't occuring in the Middle East, but in Paris!

I agree we should treat these terrorists as was done at Nuremburg...but I don't know that that's what the liberal Dems want. Did we prosecute the Nazis DURING the war? No. It was afterwards when the Nazis were no longer a threat. That's the hard thing with this war....any trial would bring to light information that the terrorists could use against us since it's ongoing. We saw that in the trial of the 1993 WTC bombings.
I would favor an anti-torture bill BUT I think that it would have to be clearly "torture" not "discomfort" or "degradation"

[concretebob]

I think McCain was getting at that when he brought up the Constitutional ammendments

Then get your pink sign, Write on it, "I support givng Constitutional rights to terrorists" and go stand on the West side of Georgia Ave, cause that is where you belong.

[t2buckeye]

IF the opposition (the Dems) had STAYED unified on Iraq rather than change half-way through as an effort to win back power, there would not be such a problem in this regard. Make no mistake....the Dems who are crying that they were 'misled" were aware of the same intelligence as the WH. But they see political advantage and will sacrifice national unity in a time of war so they can get back in power. Therefore,we also know that this discussion of "torture" IS to politically harm the president rather than find the best way to deal with terrorism.

[Calpernia]

Build up the communities and take away the terrorists ability to recruit :)

[PleaDeal]

I guess I worded that comment badly. My point was that I DO NOT BELIEVE WE SHOULD OUTLAW DEGRADING TREATEMENT!

It's way too broad a term to ever be defined to everyone's satisfaction, and should not be included in this or any other stupid bill! People who murder and maim innocents SHOULD BE DEGRADED!

[concretebob]

You are absolutely right..My defense of the Constitution, which I took an oath to defend, as did my father, my uncle, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, my sister, her husband, and countless thousands of other soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, IS PERSONAL..but hardly petty.

I expect such sentiments from an idealistic 19 year-old who grew up in the freest nation ever established in recorded history.
Now take your idealistic sentiments and shove them where the sun don't shine.
The grown-ups will handle this.
Time for you to

STFD
&
STFU