Posted on 11/01/2005 8:17:35 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
HARRISBURG — After Alan Bonsell finished his testimony Monday, in which he accused two local newspaper reporters of making up the information that drove the Dover Area School District into a First Amendment lawsuit, Judge John E. Jones III demanded to see a copy of Bonsell's previous sworn statements.
Steve Harvey, the plaintiffs' attorney who had cross-examined the Dover Area school board member, offered to provide a clean copy later in chambers.
"I want it now if you have it," the federal judge said. At the end of the first day of the sixth week of Dover's court battle over intelligent design in U.S. Middle District Court, Jones had some questions.
Bonsell sat quietly on the stand chewing gum and swiveling in his chair as Jones reviewed the man's Jan. 3 deposition in which he denied knowing anyone, besides his father, who had been involved in donating copies of the textbook "Of Pandas and People" to the Dover school district.
After he finished reading, Jones asked Bonsell when he became aware that his father, Donald, was in possession of an $850 check used to purchase copies of the pro-intelligent design textbook.
Bonsell said he had given the check to his father.
Last week, former board member Bill Buckingham testified he handed the check, dated Oct. 4, 2004, to Alan Bonsell and asked him to forward it to Donald Bonsell. Written in the check's memo line were the words: "for Pandas and People books."
"You tell me why you didn't say Mr. Buckingham was involved," a visibly angry Jones said, staring at Bonsell as he read from his deposition.
Bonsell said he misspoke. And then, "That's my fault, your honor."
Bonsell said he didn't think it mattered because Buckingham had not actually donated any of his money. Rather, the money had been collected from members of his church.
But Jones pointed out that Bonsell had said he had never spoken to anybody else about the donations.
The judge also wanted to know why the money needed to be forwarded to his father, why Buckingham couldn't have purchased the books himself.
Bonsell stammered.
"I still haven't heard an answer from you," Jones said.
"He said he'd take it off the table," Bonsell said.
"You knew you were under oath?" Jones asked at one point.
Later, outside the courthouse, plaintiffs' attorneys had no comment on Jones' questioning, and Dover's attorney Patrick Gillen had little to say.
"I won't speculate" about the judge's actions, Gillen said. "I'm confident that he's seeking the truth in these proceedings."
Jones' exchange with Bonsell was the second time the judge has intervened in testimony and questioned school board members on his own. On Friday, Jones asked Heather Geesey about her newly acquired recollection that board members at June 2004 meetings were publicly discussing intelligent design, rather than creationism as reported in the media.
In her deposition, Geesey had been unable to recall details about board discussions during the meetings.
Much of Bonsell's testimony echoed Buckingham's from last week.
Buckingham testified about donations from his church. But like Bonsell, Buckingham said initially, in his first deposition on Jan. 3, that he didn't know from where the 60 donated copies came.
Before Bonsell was forced to defend his past recollections, he spent much of his time on the stand accusing the local press, in particular two reporters — Heidi Bernhard-Bubb, a freelance writer with The York Dispatch, and Joe Maldonado, a freelance writer with the York Daily Record/Sunday News — of incorrectly reporting that board members had said "creationism" at the June 2004 board meetings rather than "intelligent design."
Bonsell said the media continues to misrepresent the case and the concept of intelligent design — the idea that life's complexity demands a designer.
Harvey wanted to know why he keeps talking to reporters, since he doesn't feel they are correctly reporting the facts.
Bonsell said because he hoped "some of the truth would get out."
Before Bonsell's testimony Monday, former board member Jane Cleaver had also testified that board members had been talking about intelligent design at the June 2004 board meetings, but the local newspapers reported they were saying creationism.
However, under cross-examination, she said she was unsure if intelligent design had been brought up at meetings in June or later at the July board meeting.
Whether board members were talking about creationism then is important to Dover's First Amendment battle. Attorneys for the 11 parents suing the district over the mention of intelligent design in biology class say board members were motivated by religious beliefs, one of the prongs used by the courts to determine whether an action violates the constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.
At the Jan. 3 depositions, board members Bonsell, Buckingham, Harkins and Supt. Nilsen all said they did not remember other board members talking about creationism at the June 2004 meetings.
Cleaver, like Bonsell, blamed the reporters, particularly Maldonado, for making up their stories.
"Joe doesn't know how to tell the truth," Cleaver said. "Joe only knows how tell a lie."
Last week, both Maldonado and Bernhard-Bubb testified to the accuracy of their articles. They said no board members ever requested a correction from articles about the meetings.
Thanks for the post. :-)
They even justify the phrase about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
BWHAHAHAA! Straight to hell in a drawstring bag!
ID has yet to show that nature cannot and does not produce specified complexity. Without the assumption that only intelligence can produce SC, ID hasn't a leg to stand on. By itself, specified complexity is not enough to show the inability of nature to have produced all we see nor give IDists the ability to recognize design.
That's what happens when you don't stay current with your dues to DarwinCentral™.......
Preview of coming attractions.
What DOES the Constitution say about teaching evolution anyway? I have looked and looked and can't find it anywhere. Please help me!
But where did nature come from? What started nature? What drives nature?
The whole purpose of that "two minute speech" is to destroy trust in science, as that is the only way to "wedge" ID in the back door. It certainly does not qualify as science, eligible to be taught on its own merits.
Clear enough for you?
Sort of like what some people want to see in mathematics?
"It's absurdly irrational to imagine that -2 has a square root."
Good question and one science is actively trying to answer. However this inability of science to currently explain the origins of nature does not help the IDists in their attempt to define themselves, nor does it help in identifying what is and what is not designed.
"What drives nature?"
I have no idea what you mean. How is nature 'driven'?
But "bag" has so many more delicious connotations.
I'm tempted to say that you're beyond help, but that wouldn't be nice. ;-)
You can't teach religious dogma as science in public schools. To do so is un-Constitutional. The school board knew that, which is why they concocted this stealth campaign to sneak creationism into the classroom under the cloak of "intelligent design." Hint: when you can't openly reveal your true motives, they probably aren't any good.
But now it's time to put up or shut up. I would appreciate your honest answer to this question:
Do you support lying in the service of your beliefs? Do you still support the Dover school board, even after all that's happened?
If the school board members are lying about a measly $850, what else are they hiding?
Because you fail to realize THERE IS NO "ALTERNATIVE" TO EVOLUTION. ID is not science. None of the things these groups are pushing are science. Evolution is currently the only set of theories explaining the diversity of life around us.
You would have us lie to high school students in the same manner that the creationist elite have been lying to you all these years.
Now, until there is some scientific research supporting these so-called "alternatives to evolution" you haven't got a dog in this hunt.
What makes nature work? What drives natural selection?
Can you at least show me where in the Constitution it states this? If it's there you should be able to.
And I really am not familiar with the Dover school board so I do feel qualified to comment. All I know is what I read here.
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